[davidl340]

With the info from the is board, I put a 4r70w into my 95 turbo Mustang. Finally broke into the 10's on a stock shortblock street machine.

I have the PI 3 disk converter that I just got back from Circle D converters for the 2nd time. I had a clutch jam up and cause a partial lockup all the time, so I sent it back and he fixed it for me no charge (nice guy).

I just ran it again to get my best time, and after locking it up in 2nd at WOT a few times, the converter won't lockup anymore. I have it hard wired to a switch. When I give it power, the rpm's are just barely affected when they would used to drop drastically. The tranny fluid has some stuff in it also.

Does it sound like I tore up the clutches in the converter again?

If so, is there a HP limit to these 3 disk clutches? I'm guestimating about 550 ft. torque. is what I'm doing.

I've got a baby on the way, money is going to be super tight, and I don't look forward to putting out the time or money to pull this tranny out and fix the converter again, not to mention getting the clutch material out of the tranny somehow.

Just curious? Is there any stock converters in the 2700 stall range that can handle 10 second runs if I don't lockup the converter? (That'll bolt to a 5.0 flexplate). Might be a good short term solution before I shell out $400 for another rebuild.

 

[jamesD]

Chris triple disk should handle lockup no problem

even the PIs did until the clutches burned out

 

[dirtyd0g]

I bet the plates are jamming up doesn't sound like a friction issue to me it sounds like the very same problem I had on my first prototype multiplate.
Alan

 

[Johnny Langton]

With the info from the is board, I put a 4r70w into my 95 turbo Mustang. Finally broke into the 10's on a stock shortblock street machine.

I have the PI 3 disk converter that I just got back from Circle D converters for the 2nd time. I had a clutch jam up and cause a partial lockup all the time, so I sent it back and he fixed it for me no charge (nice guy).

I just ran it again to get my best time, and after locking it up in 2nd at WOT a few times, the converter won't lockup anymore. I have it hard wired to a switch. When I give it power, the rpm's are just barely affected when they would used to drop drastically. The tranny fluid has some stuff in it also.

Does it sound like I tore up the clutches in the converter again?

If so, is there a HP limit to these 3 disk clutches? I'm guestimating about 550 ft. torque. is what I'm doing.

I've got a baby on the way, money is going to be super tight, and I don't look forward to putting out the time or money to pull this tranny out and fix the converter again, not to mention getting the clutch material out of the tranny somehow.

Just curious? Is there any stock converters in the 2700 stall range that can handle 10 second runs if I don't lockup the converter? (That'll bolt to a 5.0 flexplate). Might be a good short term solution before I shell out $400 for another rebuild.

When you say wired to a switch..how so? A continuous 12V supply?
JL

 

[davidl340]

Yes, continuous 12 volt. I've heard that over time, you can fry the TCC solenoid doing that, but I don't run lockup that much, so I just doubt it is that.

 

[dirtyd0g]

That setup sounds messed up to me. The pcm wants a momentary switch.
Alan

 

[Johnny Langton]

That setup sounds messed up to me. The pcm wants a momentary switch.
Alan

Yeah,it's a PWM system.Continuous voltage will kill it.
JL

 

[jamesD]

i dont' have anything to worry about with my circle d multi disc then do i? i'm letting the eec lock/unlock it

 

[MitchB]

Yeah,it's a PWM system.Continuous voltage will kill it.
JL

When the TCC is commanded to fully lock, the duty cycle output to the TCC solenoid goes to 100% - or batt voltage. Pulse width modulating the TCC is what you do not want to do because this will allow the converter clutch to slip. So running an auxiliary switch won't hurt anything. You will have to troubleshoot for an electrical, mechanical or - less likely, a hydraulic failure inside the main control.

Mitch

 

[Johnny Langton]

When the TCC is commanded to fully lock, the duty cycle output to the TCC solenoid goes to 100% - or batt voltage. Pulse width modulating the TCC is what you do not want to do because this will allow the converter clutch to slip. So running an auxiliary switch won't hurt anything. You will have to troubleshoot for an electrical, mechanical or - less likely, a hydraulic failure inside the main control.

Mitch

I remember a discussion with jerry a few years ago about this,and the answer we got was not to use a 12V supply-that it would fry the solenoid. If I remember right-the PWM goes to 100% until the EEC sees that the TCC is locked,then it ramps it back to less than 100% to just maintain the lockup.I may just be mistaken on that coversation,but I don't think I am.
I agree that the first thing he needs to do it to check the solenoid for an open circuit.
JL

 

[MitchB]

I remember a discussion with jerry a few years ago about this,and the answer we got was not to use a 12V supply-that it would fry the solenoid. If I remember right-the PWM goes to 100% until the EEC sees that the TCC is locked,then it ramps it back to less than 100% to just maintain the lockup.I may just be mistaken on that coversation,but I don't think I am.
I agree that the first thing he needs to do it to check the solenoid for an open circuit.
JL

I could be mistaken as well, but I just looked at the Ford powertrain control/emissions diagnosis manual and it shows 95-100% TCC duty cycle at 55-60 mph. GM guys have been doing this for years. What is NOT good about using a switch is that you can command TCC lockup at any engine (input shaft) speed. The PCM will delay locking the converter at lower engine speeds if you are at throttle settings where the calculated engine torque is high. I have seen this on many hours of datalogging. Under these conditions, all the available pressure off line is directed to the clutches. Using a switch allows you to circumvent this and you could end up smoking the clutches.

Mitch

 

[Johnny Langton]

Ok,I just got a reply from jerry...The solenoid circuit is a peak and hold type.It gets hit with a full 12V to lockup,then gets backed off to 5V to hold. He said that using a continuous 12V feed will fry it. My suggestion at this point is to check the TCC solenoid circuit.
JL

 

[MitchB]

Ok,I just got a reply from jerry...The solenoid circuit is a peak and hold type.It gets hit with a full 12V to lockup,then gets backed off to 5V to hold. He said that using a continuous 12V feed will fry it. My suggestion at this point is to check the TCC solenoid circuit.
JL

So it is not a matter of the output to the solenoid being PWM'd, but that it's backed off to 5V.Thanks for the good info.

Mitch

 

[SilverFox]

So is that just the way ford wants the soleniod to be.....cause like mentioned, 12v to the GM guys doesn't seem to hurt them.

What is the next step....make a small electronic device that cuts back the V after so many seconds of peak.

 

[Johnny Langton]

What is the next step....make a small electronic device that cuts back the V after so many seconds of peak.

That would probably be the best thing to do.
JL