2 questions!

1240 Views 46 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Noser7mil, 1 d ago

Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · 26 d ago

Hey guys I have 2 questions.

1. my motor mounts sucks and I’m not trying to pay rediculous prices for solid rubber mounts. I’ve seen on here you can do the hockey pucks, my question is how many pucks do I need to space the engine up to the same level as the stock mounts? Has anybody done this and wouldn’t mind sharing info??

2. I’m wanting to build custom upper and lower control arms, the stock bushings suck cheecks. I do have new arms and bushings about a year old. going with heims on the contact points on the body side. My question is, where can I find the ball joints needed to be able to connect the new arms to the spindle?? I’ve been looking around and can’t find anything, there plenty websites that sell the tubing and heims but I can’t find any that sells the ball joint portion needed to connect the arms to spindles.

This is the idea, just need a lead on the ball joint side. Thanks in advance!!

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #21 · 8 d ago (Edited)

Wile E. Coyote Jr. said:
Heim joints will only make a difference if you are genuinely track racing your car.

Going to heims on the street is a good way to have the most uncomfortable, ungodly ride you'll ever experience. First hand experience from driving my buddies SN95 drift car.

I still have stock bushings everywhere on my car, save for the differential and the knuckles. And I throw my car into a drift at 80mph. They feel just fine.

I like the enthusiasm. But dont do that to a street car. Keep to the poly bushings from SCP if anything.

I just went to scp to see the prices and god damn! 130$! I had them a while back and honestly hated them plus they didn’t last more than a year. And they still didn’t give me the feel I was looking for. Currently running SCP stock style bushings which to me suck cheecks.
As it is the ride is pretty knarly, I’m running 18” saleen on 275/40/18. Full delrin in rear with solid irs mounts and I can feel like the front wheels move around too much when hitting pot holes, I just can’t stand it! I wouldn’t mind it the NVH was a bit more than it is now except if it actually handled well.

I found that qa1 sells ball joints needed for making a custom control arm I just don’t know which one would fit our lower spindle.I’d really like to go forward with thisas I have access to fabricators at my job and I’m sure they can do this. Just need all material and a jig of our stock arms. I’d even scratch the idea of heims and go for bushes sleeves on the ends. I recently seen this joints called Johnny joints that supposedly are better than heims

Bolt-In Style Ball Joints | QA1

QA1's 4-Bolt Style Ultimate Ball Joint is ideal for racing applications. Exclusive to QA1, this patented, self-lubricating design is 100% owner rebuildable. Multiple stud lengths available.

www.qa1.net

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #22 · 8 d ago

www.googleadservices.com

RockJock CE-9110 2.5" Johnny Joint Rod End

The Johnny Joint gives 30 degrees of unrestricted movement in any direction. The Johny Joint rod end is made with a high density, tough 88 urethane encased ball that is durable and is impervious to weather.

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XR7-4.6

· #23 · 8 d ago

If you think stiffer bushings(well, no bushings at all in this case) is going to make the bump steer any better you’ve got another thing coming.

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #24 · 8 d ago

XR7-4.6 said:
If you think stiffer bushings(well, no bushings at all in this case) is going to make the bump steer any better you’ve got another thing coming.

Haha don’t burst my bubble 😂 man I’m just fed up with the front end. I really wish ford had gone with a traditional an arm up front. It might be me just exaggerating I guess but I gotta do something soon.

Grog6

· #25 · 8 d ago

Make sure you have the right tie rod ends; I got a set of mustang ones installed by a shop, and the bump steer is crazy. They are apparently the wrong length.

XR7-4.6

· #26 · 8 d ago

Noser7mil said:
Haha don’t burst my bubble 😂 man I’m just fed up with the front end. I really wish ford had gone with a traditional an arm up front. It might be me just exaggerating I guess but I gotta do something soon.

An A arm wouldn’t change it either, I do wish Ford used an A arm from a simplicity/durability standpoint, but geometry being equal it won’t perform any differently, the LCA/strut rod is a virtual A arm in the way it works.

The thing to keep in mind is lowering and different wheel offsets and tire heights are slightly altering the geometry the suspension was originally optimized for, but in your case having wide 275s is the root of the issue, you can’t really dial out tramlining and bumpsteer with them, that’s why most settle on 245 or 255 max in the front for street driving.

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #27 · 7 d ago

@XR7-4.6 what a bummer the 275’s look so cool up front 😎 my biggest gripe is the strut rod bushing. Under heaving breaking, im running the cadi brembo’s you can really feel the bushing being smushed by the weight of the car. I’m pretty sure that is what is really hiking back the front end.

Something like the MM arms for mustangs. They use bushed sleeves instead of heims.

https://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Front-Control-Arms-1994-2004-Mustang-P393.aspx

Only thing really holding back this project is my lack of how to go about the ball joint side. No idea what pieces to get. I’ve seen videos on how to make a control arm jig and it seems fairly simple. My welding skills aren’t the best but good enough to make a jig. And send it to an actual fabricator and have them do it.

XR7-4.6

· #28 · 7 d ago

Bear in mind the strut rod bushings deflect their most under braking and when you go over a curb or pothole, but in terms of lateral deflection, going around corners at speed, they perform about the same as standard pivot bushings since the forces are more evenly spread to other points, so they’re not quite the Achilles heel you think they are. They’re not something you’d engineer into a racecar suspension since their main benefit is street ride quality, but you can absolutely make a suspension with strut rod bushings perform well in a race environment.

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #29 · 5 d ago

3

I see what you mean, there’s plenty of cars that have this setup, the last gen GTO has strut rod aswell so it can’t be that bad. LA roads are horrible and the constant braking and rough terrain wears these suckers out quickly specially at almost 4000lbs haha. I highly dislike the idea of constantly changing these out tho. It seems like the easiest idea is to just make a heim strut rod. Similar to how the 60’s mustangs have readily available and a couple fellow members on the forum have done. Seems easier than making a whole arm.

I also plan on getting this other project on the road soon, I’ve been talking about it but it’s time to handle this scandle. Let me know what you think, it’s an X brace for the shock towers. I’m planning on using square tube maybe .083, .120 starts getting heavy heavy. Keeping the strut bar and tying it to just above where package tray.

I will say I’ve noticed how the new cars, mustangs in particular have the shocks double bolted to the frame rails. I’m assuming it’s to control the shocks pulling and pushing a forces. Which I’m assuming the x brace will help by keeping that area stable.

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Grog6

· #30 · 5 d ago

The ones with two bolts are McPherson struts. They are part of the control arm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut

Our cars have shocks, so only one bolt. Both designs have advantages, ours do canyon carving very well.

XR7-4.6

· #31 · 5 d ago

Noser7mil said:
I see what you mean, there’s plenty of cars that have this setup, the last gen GTO has strut rod aswell so it can’t be that bad. LA roads are horrible and the constant braking and rough terrain wears these suckers out quickly specially at almost 4000lbs haha. I highly dislike the idea of constantly changing these out tho. It seems like the easiest idea is to just make a heim strut rod. Similar to how the 60’s mustangs have readily available and a couple fellow members on the forum have done. Seems easier than making a whole arm.

I also plan on getting this other project on the road soon, I’ve been talking about it but it’s time to handle this scandle. Let me know what you think, it’s an X brace for the shock towers. I’m planning on using square tube maybe .083, .120 starts getting heavy heavy. Keeping the strut bar and tying it to just above where package tray.

I will say I’ve noticed how the new cars, mustangs in particular have the shocks double bolted to the frame rails. I’m assuming it’s to control the shocks pulling and pushing a forces. Which I’m assuming the x brace will help by keeping that area stable.

View attachment 53688
View attachment 53689 View attachment 53690

Heims wear out too, they’ll actually start rattling like a ball joint after awhile, SRBs are mushy but for rutted street duty I’d give them the advantage. I don’t want heims anyplace on a street driven vehicle, that’s what I most disliked about the old design AJE K members.

I agree with you however that if you are going to eliminate the bushings for them making a strut rod that goes in place of the stock one is better than making a whole A arm assembly from scratch.

Grog6

· #32 · 5 d ago

There was a project on sccoa a few years back, were they looked into using spherical bearings. I don't remember it ever becoming a thing.

Wile E. Coyote Jr.

· #33 · 5 d ago

Me again. Stopping in to say I have stock rubber bushings on this thing still. Strut rods included.

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XR7-4.6

· #34 · 5 d ago (Edited)

Grog6 said:
There was a project on sccoa a few years back, were they looked into using spherical bearings. I don't remember it ever becoming a thing.

mayer(sp?) racing had an interesting set of bushings for first gen Mustangs that used Delrin bushings that when put together on each side of the K member formed a sphere, which then had two aluminum cups rotate around it on the strut rod itself. I tried pitching that idea to DLF before he died, because that I think would have been perfect for us.

Edit, they still exist from other vendors. Unfortunately our strut rods are too thick to fit these

opentrackerracing.com

Delrin Monoball Strut Rod Bushing Set (1967-73) Mustang-Cougar (1966-70) Falcon-Comet-Fairlane - Opentracker Racing

Made from Delrin, these strut rod bushings won’t deflect like the stock rubber bushings. Ideal for racing classes where the steel rod end style strut rod is not allowed. DO NOT overtorque the bushing. The gold sleeve in this kit is not a positive stop for the torque adjustment. The pivot needs...

opentrackerracing.com

One of the other negatives with heims is they place the pivot point outward so the control arm now moves in a different axis, changing caster through travel, maybe not enough to make a real difference but I can’t help but think it would cancel out any benefit they have over rubber too

Reactions: 1

Grog6

· #35 · 5 d ago

Wow, Matt; you mean our strut rods are bigger than the luxobarge Couars?

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Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #36 · 3 d ago

I do remember you talking about the pivot location. I’m pretty sure it won’t help in the handling dep, but I’m still sure it’ll be better than that sorry ass bushing being pummeled every time the brakes grab.
You think that company your posted would make a custom piece for our cars?? Or if we can maybe drill out the holes and get bigger sleeves to accommodate our strut rods?? That’s still cheaper than the stock style bushings over at SCP, what a joke he charges for them.

Grog6

· #37 · 3 d ago

IMHO, Bill likes his stuff and wants to keep it.

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XR7-4.6

· #38 · 3 d ago

Noser7mil said:
I do remember you talking about the pivot location. I’m pretty sure it won’t help in the handling dep, but I’m still sure it’ll be better than that sorry ass bushing being pummeled every time the brakes grab.
You think that company your posted would make a custom piece for our cars?? Or if we can maybe drill out the holes and get bigger sleeves to accommodate our strut rods?? That’s still cheaper than the stock style bushings over at SCP, what a joke he charges for them.

The hole is smaller through the K member on Mustangs, and if the thickness of the K member is different on our cars from mustangs the delrin won’t firm a proper ball, so it’ll bind under articulation, if it’s thinner you might be able to add a sleeve and a big washer but otherwise it’s probably a no go trying to retrofit them

racecougar

· #39 · 3 d ago

Noser7mil said:
@XR7-4.6 what a bummer the 275’s look so cool up front 😎 my biggest gripe is the strut rod bushing. Under heaving breaking, im running the cadi brembo’s you can really feel the bushing being smushed by the weight of the car. I’m pretty sure that is what is really hiking back the front end.

Sounds like something is wrong with your strut rod bushings.

Noser7mil said:
I really wish ford had gone with a traditional an arm up front. It might be me just exaggerating I guess but I gotta do something soon.

Have you driven a SN95? The MN12 is leaps and bounds better.

Reactions: 3

Noser7mil

Discussion Starter · #40 · 3 d ago

@XR7-4.6 I see what you mean, wouldn’t be the best way to go about this situation. I wonder if I email them and ask about our cars, maybe they would be willing to knock out a set for us. Obviously they’d have to have a strut rod from our cars. Would it be worth the hassle to ask?

@racecougar you know what, I genuinely think all the alignment shops around here don’t know **** about adjusting our suspensions. I’ve been to a couple shops over the time if had this car and I always feel like they suck.
A couple years ago I had a 2001 mustang gt and most def the bird is a better all around car no doubt about it!

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