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Q: What is the worst-case scenario event you think will happen in 2020?

  • 1. Contested election (meaning Trump or Biden don't concede the election by Nov 10th)

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • 2. Trump disputes the validity of the election and causes civil unrest

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • 3. The pandemic starts overwhelming our medical system

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • 4. The stock market crashes (defined at S&P dropping below the March 2020 dip)

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • 5. Alien Invasion

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 6. We go to war with China/Iran/etc (defined as declaration of war or troop invasion)

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 7. We get invaded

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 8. Civil war in the US (defined as some organized body attacking the govt)

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • 9. Militia on Militia violence (active shooting between organized non-govt combatants)

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • 10. Big Rock hits Earth (Tunguska event - 100meters - or bigger)

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 11. The Rapture (mass group of people disappear unrelated to aliens)

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 12. Messiah declaration gets attention of >1% of population (Jesus or other, not aliens)

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • 13. Biden disputes the validity of the election and causes civil unrest

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • 14. Coronavirus evolves like the flu -- significantly setting back vaccination development efforts

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Another REGIONAL natural disaster (hurricane, earthquake, tornado swarm, etc)

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • 16. One of the current presidential candidates steps down/dies before the election

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 17. Post Nov, our President elect dies.

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • 18. Beheadings (of people not statues) by domestic terrorists (any flavor).

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • 19. Terrorist attack before Jan 20th

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 20. Another country taking advantage of US being distracted with power xfer (ex: Crimean invasion)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
401 - 420 of 454 Posts

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I think what Matt is getting at is how do you know where it ends? Sure I wear my seat belt, wear a mask, wash my hands, don't burn tires, dispose of batteries incorrectly, blah, blah, blah.

All good things, I think we can agree on. But when is the government controlling one of those things too much? In all honesty I don't think I should have to wear a seat belt from a legal standpoint. I always will, and always have, it's stupid not to. But who am I hurting other than myself ( not talking about emotions) if I don't?

Maybe more relative is the closing of business. Government gets to tell me I can't have my business open? Why? Because people are too stupid to wear masks and stay at a distance. I'd kick people out that don't abide by my rules of mask wearing, etc. In MY business. I don't have a business, but I understand those that do have been royally F'd over during this thing.

I don't think we're at a lifelong mask mandate, but every step we let gov't tell us what to do, they get a little bit more power. So it's presidence for the next thing. Real or invented for their use (whoever they may be).

Slippery slope. And if Matt truly believed it's a specific thing, then I misread that. I think he, like many of us are concerned with is what is the next "thing".
 

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If I may insert my views here, and where I think Matt is coming from; the common denominator between the war on drugs, the war on terrorism, the war on climate change, and now the war on COVID is that they are all a boogeyman that we will never defeat, yet we are asked to give up more and more rights to fight them, and since we never defeat the enemy, we never get those rights back, and we must always remain fearful.

The masks thing will probably fade in time. I hope the “social distancing” does too, but I’m not sure it will. I doubt that the barriers in front of every cashier are ever going anywhere, because that would require someone at a large company to make an affirmative decision to remove a “safety item”, and I just don’t see that happening in our litigious society. And while there is no question that the COVID restrictions, just like the post 9/11 flying restrictions, do make life safer, they also make life less pleasant.

I can’t find the post right now, but you yourself said you were fine with these restrictions for as long as it takes with no end in sight. Keep in mind that when these restrictions were imposed, we were all told it was going to be a few weeks, and here we are 8 months later with the restrictions still going strong. So I’ll put it to you again, how long is too long?

What if the vaccine is going to take another 2 years? What if a vaccine can’t ever be safely produced? In that case, how long do we continue all these restrictions, and if the answer is anything short of forever, then who gets the power to decide that? If a vaccine is produced, how long after it is released until these restrictions should be lifted? Should the vaccine be mandated? If so, you have now set a precedent where the government has authority over what medical treatments you are allowed to have and what you are allowed to decline. If you don’t mandate the vaccine, are you going to have different restrictions for those who have been vaccinated vs those who haven’t, and if so, how are you going to enforce that? The only way I can think of is everyone having to carry around their “papers” showing they were vaccinated, and therefore are allowed to pass. Now if that seemed like a good idea for even a moment, consider that for someone who is always pointing out similarities between Republicans and Nazis, I must say that seems pretty Nazi-esque to me.

So clearly there have been numerous powers granted to governments under covid, however few, if any of them, are clearly delineated when or how those powers get relinquished, and for many, there isn’t even a logical answer for when and how to relinquish them, so to speculate that the government will keep these powers indefinitely, just like they did last time everyone panicked, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that, is not at all unrealistic.
 
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Circling back to this: Precedent of what Matt? The example of preventing climate change by not driving is hyperbole. You're going to need to be more reasonable and specific in your precedent projections to justify your fears.

Again, How do you make the leap from temporary restrictions to control the pandemic to retaining “the new normal” ... however you define that ... for all time? Please expand upon that line of thinking in detail. I honestly want to better understand where you’re coming from.
This has gone on for 8 months, temporary restrictions haven’t gone away in some places - because, yes the disease hasn’t gone away - but 8 months is a generation defining crisis. Every generation defining crisis, Like 9/11, like the drug epidemic of the 80s, etc. never relinquished measures relevant at the time they happened without a legal battle or massive campaign for reform or repeal.

Of course my example is hyperbole, nobody can predict the future, but it’s not that out there to suggest that the usage of restrictions for future events, whatever they may be, couldn’t be justified by our usage now “hey it’s only a month and we’ll be over this, we did this for over a year for the novel coronavirus for those of us old enough to remember, but we’re much more efficient at printing money this time!”. It became the norm after Vietnam for presidents to effectively go to war by executive order, something every president except Carter and Trump have utilized so far, because the precedent was set.

What liberties have we sacrificed or are we going to sacrifice "for the rest of the time" exactly? The "right" not to wear a mask? The "right" not to social distance? The "right" to be a Covidiot and Covfefe?
Seeing family, going to non essential work, going to school, smelling the flowers helping little old ladies cross the street for 8 months and murmurs suggesting to or through 2022? Look, I think people, especially Trump supporters, have been and are being utter idiots about everything regarding this, but if they don’t comply, then what going forward? Fines? Prosecution? Jail time? Going back to above so we now legalize more and more drugs and commute related sentences, but now we repack the prisons with trump supporters for mask violations? I’m talking extreme and hopefully unlikely scenario here, but what is the solution without compliance?

Much as I’m resentful of those people for in all likelyhood prolonging the pandemic, they’re not wrong in that these measures would in normal times be unacceptable. The problem they don’t seem to grasp is that these are not in fact normal times, but calling them idiots and condescending to them isn’t going to win them over. The lack of tact and civility to people isn’t a Trumpism, the left is as guilty as the right with this, maybe worse with the smugness, which is why I always said he was a symptom of our society’s illness, not the cause.

It's absurd because these are the same arguments that were made against wearing seatbelts back in the day. The difference is, with rare exception, seatbelts save lives on a daily basis. Masks also save lives on a daily basis. Seatbelts will always be required, masks, social distancing, shut downs to reduce or prevent spread will not.

the difference between this and seatbelts is there is truly only one party affected by the non-use of seatbelts in the event of an accident, and while they may occupy a hospital bed when it could have been prevented, no measure has ever been taken to tell other law abiding motorists to stop driving because some rebels out there aren’t wearing their seatbelts or are intoxicated for that matter.

For the record I am against seatbelt laws, not just because “mah Liberty” but because it’s merely an excuse for law enforcement to write tickets and get easy drug busts.

Vigilant for or against what exactly? Yes, there are stricter ID requirements for travel post 9/11. That's a good thing.
Then you won’t mind sending me the $15 for those of us who renewed two years ago and must renew again two years early as the law went in effect(mercifully the pandemic delayed it) ?

It’s pointless. The law was enacted amid 9/11 hysteria in the mid 00s and hasn’t been ready to roll out until now, and there haven’t been any incidents without it in the interim. Just one more hassle to the utter shitshow experience that is commercial flying post 9/11, which just created massive lines of soft targets before security, or a bypass using TSA pre (a bribe)

Debt piling endless, pointless, overbroadly executed wars against a shadow enemy is something completely unrelated to the pandemic. I don't see the correlation between the fight against terrorism and the fight against a pandemic (or relative lack thereof).

Of course we'll get past this like the 1918 pandemic. What specious measures are you fearful of? I honestly hope that we, as a society, ARE better prepared for the next one because it could very well be more contagious and more deadly than this one. However, given the way this one has played out so far though, you have nothing to fear, but the rest of us do.
THAT, that in bold, is exactly what I’m talking about. So we have an unprecedented once in a century pandemic, but of course action-reaction, just like terrorism “we must be ready for the next one”. So now we’ll be open to treating far lesser epidemics or pandemics like bird flu or mad cow disease with this same kind of strategy?

9/11 was one massive terrorist incident that really happened, Covid 19 is one massive pandemic that is really happening. Everyone wants to use their hindsight knowledge to prevent what has already happened, claiming we prevented another 9/11 by the measures taken after the fact are specious and unverifiable the severity of it, and our involvement in the Middle East has cost more lives and far more money than that event did. I certainly think we need to be better prepared for pandemics, and certainly should have come up with a plan for COVID-19, but recognize the very likely, historically accurate, probability that this was a perfect storm once in century problem, and not one that needs to fundamentally change our way of life going forward. We need to do something NOW

Just hop in your car, put your seatbelt on, throw your mask out the window, go for a drive and cool down. It'll be all right.
Haven’t not worn a mask in public, haven’t not worn a seatbelt in a moving vehicle in my life(minus the school bus that didn’t have them). Just because I fear moves toward totalitarianism doesn’t mean I lack self preservation 😁
 

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So I had an interesting discussion with one of my dad's closest friends - retired judge and Vietnam vet whose opinion I greatly value.
1) he's decided to push a chunk of his money back into the market in the form of buying VOO (s&p500 index fund). It's not the majority of what he plans to have back in the market in a normal time but it's a far larger chunk than the 3% I have shorting it. If he loses a chunk, he'll be sad but it won't change his world.

The reasoning he has is that with the Biden victory and pfizer news, he thinks things will be flat because even if the little people (my words, not his) are out of work, the rich people who do put a lot in the stock market are still employed and it's not like there are many other places to park their money. Realistically, he's expecting a flat market and a slow recovery. I respectfully disagree on the flatness part.

2) what is more curious is that he sees this failure to smoothly transfer power between administrations may embolden a rival State or non state actor (aka ISIS) to try something against Americans while we are leaderless. Dirty bomb, Russia/Turkey going into a neighbor (like crimea), NK nuclear or ICBM test, MBS ordering another journalist killing, etc. China might not want to do something because they are expecting warmer relations with the US with Biden BUT turkey, NK, ISIS or Iran could trigger some drama.

This is why I added two more options to the doomsday. If my dad's friend is really worried that something like this could happen, I asked why he would push money back into the market. He responded that for most of these scenarios, while they would further hurt USs standing if we don't do anything, are probably not going to affect the market. Fair enough.
 

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Oh, seems like a few thousand crazies decided to roll into DC today to show their support for their idol Trump. There are a few videos of fights breaking out but it didn't descend into a kenosha.

Clip I saw had a maga supporter knocking down and stomping on the head of a counter protestor with a microphone so the others return the favor. Maga medic says their man might have a bleeding in the head so they decide to pray it away)
 

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If I may insert my views here, and where I think Matt is coming from; the common denominator between the war on drugs, the war on terrorism, the war on climate change, and now the war on COVID is that they are all a boogeyman that we will never defeat, yet we are asked to give up more and more rights to fight them, and since we never defeat the enemy, we never get those rights back, and we must always remain fearful.

The masks thing will probably fade in time. I hope the “social distancing” does too, but I’m not sure it will. I doubt that the barriers in front of every cashier are ever going anywhere, because that would require someone at a large company to make an affirmative decision to remove a “safety item”, and I just don’t see that happening in our litigious society. And while there is no question that the COVID restrictions, just like the post 9/11 flying restrictions, do make life safer, they also make life less pleasant.

I can’t find the post right now, but you yourself said you were fine with these restrictions for as long as it takes with no end in sight. Keep in mind that when these restrictions were imposed, we were all told it was going to be a few weeks, and here we are 8 months later with the restrictions still going strong. So I’ll put it to you again, how long is too long?

What if the vaccine is going to take another 2 years? What if a vaccine can’t ever be safely produced? In that case, how long do we continue all these restrictions, and if the answer is anything short of forever, then who gets the power to decide that? If a vaccine is produced, how long after it is released until these restrictions should be lifted? Should the vaccine be mandated? If so, you have now set a precedent where the government has authority over what medical treatments you are allowed to have and what you are allowed to decline. If you don’t mandate the vaccine, are you going to have different restrictions for those who have been vaccinated vs those who haven’t, and if so, how are you going to enforce that? The only way I can think of is everyone having to carry around their “papers” showing they were vaccinated, and therefore are allowed to pass. Now if that seemed like a good idea for even a moment, consider that for someone who is always pointing out similarities between Republicans and Nazis, I must say that seems pretty Nazi-esque to me.

So clearly there have been numerous powers granted to governments under covid, however few, if any of them, are clearly delineated when or how those powers get relinquished, and for many, there isn’t even a logical answer for when and how to relinquish them, so to speculate that the government will keep these powers indefinitely, just like they did last time everyone panicked, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that, is not at all unrealistic.
Ok, I'll start with Mikey's reply. Each of these issues (Global Warming, Terrorism, Drugs and now, the Pandemic) has it's own set of problems that have to be addressed differently. The answer is not to throw our hands up and say well, nothing can be done and I'm not giving up my "rights" to stop any of this either. There are many low probability high consequence issues that we, both individually and society at large, have to both address and be ready for. The rarity of these events lulls us into a sense of complacency and when they do occur everyone has a woe was me response. Should we all become preppers? Of course not. But a bit of sacrifice for the greater good isn't too much to ask either.

I absolutely don't believe this will last forever and yes, I"m willing to do what it takes to protect my family and my fellow man as long as it takes in the meantime. There is no chronological answer to "How long is too long?". The answer is "As long as it takes." but, I assure you, that won't be forever! "The fact that we're eight months into this is no surprise. I had no unrealistic expectations at the onset that it would take "Just a few weeks." to get this under control. Perhaps, had everyone taken the science seriously (cough, cough) it would have taken less time to get things under control, fewer people would have died, businesses could have reopened sooner and we could have returned to something more closely resembling "normalcy". Unfortunately there are too many "individuals" out there and well, we are where we are today.

People, modern Americans in particular, are a selfish, soft lot. For the most part, they have no concept of true individual and group sacrifice for the greater good like our grandparents or great-grandparents dealt with during the great depression and WWII.

None of us should expect a quick resolution, an instant vaccine and a return to normalcy tomorrow... as much as some people really wished that would have happen before the election. Reality is a b!tch. It will probably take a year or two for a vaccine to be developed, tested, certified, mass produced and made widely available. The "what if" that a vaccine will never be developed is just bunk. There are several promising vaccines currently in late stage testing that are very promising. I expect at least one of them to be certified and widely available within the next year.

As far as mandating vaccines, that's nothing new. There are dozens of vaccines that have been developed over the years that are now required and are very beneficial for both the individual and society at large. MMR, Whoping Cough, Polio, etc. Adding COVID to the list is just another vax. So what?

These vaccines are widely accepted to be both in the best interest of the individual and society at large. (Except for the recent rise of the anti-vaxxer movement.) Which, BTW, was identified as one of the top ten threats to world health by the WHO in 2019. Are you an anti-vaxxer?

In case you missed it "Papers" are already required. They're called shot records and they're both provided to the individual on paper and stored in the immunization registry. They're required for attendance at child care centers, preschools, and both public and private schools. Links to your home state for your reference. Every other state has similar requirements. Your argument holds no weight as it's already reality.

These "powers" you refer to were not just suddenly and magically created and "granted" to the government and the governors under COVID, these powers and authority were always there. These are not new "powers", they are existing powers. They were just not exercised prior to the pandemic because there was no need. Eventually the restrictions will be lifted and the authority to act again if needed will remain. That's the government we have. If you're not happy with the way things are vote. If you're really not happy and you think you can do better then run for office. That's how democracy works.
 

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From the DC protests yesterday, it seems someone got stabbed. That's not good but it could have been far worse.

In another video I noticed a woman wearing stars and stripes pants. Since when was it ok for you to put your ass on OUR flag?
 

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This has gone on for 8 months, temporary restrictions haven’t gone away in some places - because, yes the disease hasn’t gone away - but 8 months is a generation defining crisis. Every generation defining crisis, Like 9/11, like the drug epidemic of the 80s, etc. never relinquished measures relevant at the time they happened without a legal battle or massive campaign for reform or repeal.

Of course my example is hyperbole, nobody can predict the future, but it’s not that out there to suggest that the usage of restrictions for future events, whatever they may be, couldn’t be justified by our usage now “hey it’s only a month and we’ll be over this, we did this for over a year for the novel coronavirus for those of us old enough to remember, but we’re much more efficient at printing money this time!”. It became the norm after Vietnam for presidents to effectively go to war by executive order, something every president except Carter and Trump have utilized so far, because the precedent was set.
When we face a future pandemic, and we will, I would hope and expect that the same restriction play book would be available and utilized. The science to fight and control a pandemic hasn't changed. Masks, social distancing, and hand washing will be as effective in 2120 as it was in 1918 and now in 2020. However given the current explosive, exponential growth in computing technology I expect scientific solutions will look quite different than today but that's a topic for another thread.

Seeing family, going to non essential work, going to school, smelling the flowers helping little old ladies cross the street for 8 months and murmurs suggesting to or through 2022? Look, I think people, especially Trump supporters, have been and are being utter idiots about everything regarding this, but if they don’t comply, then what going forward? Fines? Prosecution? Jail time? Going back to above so we now legalize more and more drugs and commute related sentences, but now we repack the prisons with trump supporters for mask violations? I’m talking extreme and hopefully unlikely scenario here, but what is the solution without compliance?
I agree, there are no easy answers to non-compliance. During the 1918 pandemic not wearing a mask was illegal in some parts of the country punishable by fine or prison. You may find it hard to believe, but at the time the US lead the world in mask wearing. It can be done and is such a small thing to do to prevent spread. The fact that it's been politicized is just unbelievable.

The solution / result with limited or no compliance is what we have now. Rampant spread, packed hospitals, the economy crippled. But hey, for the most part, everyone's getting to do what they want. Isn't it great!? Over 245,000 corpses (and counting) can't be wrong!

I really feel for the health care workers who are caught in the middle of this selfish societal battle over personal "rights" vs. doing what's right for the greater good.

Much as I’m resentful of those people for in all likelyhood prolonging the pandemic, they’re not wrong in that these measures would in normal times be unacceptable. The problem they don’t seem to grasp is that these are not in fact normal times, but calling them idiots and condescending to them isn’t going to win them over. The lack of tact and civility to people isn’t a Trumpism, the left is as guilty as the right with this, maybe worse with the smugness, which is why I always said he was a symptom of our society’s illness, not the cause.
Calling them idiots or being super nice to them isn't going to change their behavior one way or another one bit. It's a wash either way. Otherwise I agree with everything you said here.


the difference between this and seatbelts is there is truly only one party affected by the non-use of seatbelts in the event of an accident, and while they may occupy a hospital bed when it could have been prevented, no measure has ever been taken to tell other law abiding motorists to stop driving because some rebels out there aren’t wearing their seatbelts or are intoxicated for that matter.

For the record I am against seatbelt laws, not just because “mah Liberty” but because it’s merely an excuse for law enforcement to write tickets and get easy drug busts.
There's a huge difference between wearing a seatbelt to protect yourself and wearing a mask to protect your fellow man. The reason I mentioned seatbelts was the initial resistance to the idea - the same as mask wearing because of "mah Liberty." Yeah, not wearing a seatbelt only affects the individual, their family and those eventually responsible for caring for their self-induced injuries. Not wearing a mask has the potential to effect many, many more people than just the wearer/non-wearer.


Then you won’t mind sending me the $15 for those of us who renewed two years ago and must renew again two years early as the law went in effect(mercifully the pandemic delayed it) ?

It’s pointless. The law was enacted amid 9/11 hysteria in the mid 00s and hasn’t been ready to roll out until now, and there haven’t been any incidents without it in the interim. Just one more hassle to the utter shitshow experience that is commercial flying post 9/11, which just created massive lines of soft targets before security, or a bypass using TSA pre (a bribe)
This is a side bar topic to the issue of the pandemic. Yeah, it's arguably pointless.


THAT, that in bold, is exactly what I’m talking about. So we have an unprecedented once in a century pandemic, but of course action-reaction, just like terrorism “we must be ready for the next one”. So now we’ll be open to treating far lesser epidemics or pandemics like bird flu or mad cow disease with this same kind of strategy?
We absolutely "must be ready for the next one". The "lesser epidemics" or pandemics like bird flu or mad cow disease have already been treated with the amount of care and precautions required to meet the threat. There is no one size fits all response. As to the current COVID pandemic there was a "playbook" / plan that was left with the current administration but they chose to throw it out the window and ignore it and subsequently, we are where we are with this one.

9/11 was one massive terrorist incident that really happened, Covid 19 is one massive pandemic that is really happening. Everyone wants to use their hindsight knowledge to prevent what has already happened, claiming we prevented another 9/11 by the measures taken after the fact are specious and unverifiable the severity of it, and our involvement in the Middle East has cost more lives and far more money than that event did. I certainly think we need to be better prepared for pandemics, and certainly should have come up with a plan for COVID-19, but recognize the very likely, historically accurate, probability that this was a perfect storm once in century problem, and not one that needs to fundamentally change our way of life going forward. We need to do something NOW
We learn from history that we do not learn from history. As I said, there was a pandemic/outbreak plan in place. Some individuals chose not to utilize or apply the plan. The lessons are there, the knowledge is there. We just need to apply it. That's the hard part.

Haven’t not worn a mask in public, haven’t not worn a seatbelt in a moving vehicle in my life(minus the school bus that didn’t have them). Just because I fear moves toward totalitarianism doesn’t mean I lack self preservation 😁
😁
 

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5 Common Trump election lawsuit themes:
  • Reliance on hearsay
  • Wild speculation - allegations in complaints that have no basis in fact.
  • Witnesses' credibility issues
  • Repackaging and refiling of claims that have already been discredited or denied.
  • The overwhelming majority of claims are small potatoes. Petty cases about trivial amounts of ballots that will not change the outcome of the election.
He's not using the legal system he's ABUSING the legal system.

 
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I'm curious. How much voter fraud do you guys think actually happened and where do you think it happened most? The one video I've seen the most is the one guy manually counting votes and when he comes across one ballot that he doesn't like, he looks around to see if anyone is watching, and the be changes something on the ballot. That's straight up voter fraud.

I'll have to find the link, but I've seen the video pop up on my FB feed once and a friend of mine show me the video.
 

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I'm curious. How much voter fraud do you guys think actually happened and where do you think it happened most? The one video I've seen the most is the one guy manually counting votes and when he comes across one ballot that he doesn't like, he looks around to see if anyone is watching, and the be changes something on the ballot. That's straight up voter fraud.

I'll have to find the link, but I've seen the video pop up on my FB feed once and a friend of mine show me the video.
Please find the link and research it before spreading what could be misinformation. There are too many people wandering around ballot counting centers watching the counters and each other. It's not quite like those drug weighing dens from the movies where the people are all naked but logically, pens must a restricted item (it only makes sense to issue them pencils or specifically colored pens, for example).

One example of this was the video which allegedly shows the collection of a someone burning 80 "trump ballots". Turns out this was video likely released to fire up the base but what was burned were sample ballots.

No officials nationwide have found evidence of voter fraud in all 50 states

Trumps OWN lawyers, when pressed under oath, say they are not alleging fraud. Why? If they made a claim that they NEW was false under oath, their legal licenses would be at risk. Noone wants to die on that hill for a guy who has a history of NOT paying his bills.
“We are not alleging fraud in this lawsuit. We are not alleging anyone stealing the election,” Kory Langhofer, a Trump campaign attorney, said at the start of the hearing.

DHS says no voter fraud

16 Federal Prosecuters say no evidence of fraud

GOP officials in swing states say no fraud happened on their watches

UTAH elect governor says no fraud found

Who is to be believed? Guiliani and his registered sex offender/perennial NJ candidate/alleged attention whore (my interpretation) and DJT .... OR everyone else, GOP and Dem alike?
 

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Lame Duck drama begins: Trump begins to sell oil drilling leases in AK
Effing assH0le move. Expect nothing less from this POS.

Then there are all these last minute rule changes.

 

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Please find the link and research it before spreading what could be misinformation. There are too many people wandering around ballot counting centers watching the counters and each other. It's not quite like those drug weighing dens from the movies where the people are all naked but logically, pens must a restricted item (it only makes sense to issue them pencils or specifically colored pens, for example).
So my friend gave me a copy of the video. It's not the original video I saw pop up in my FB feed that was slightly longer showing more context. I'm still looking for the original one I saw showing more. It's probably burried in Reddit or something now.

Short of putting the video up on YT with only a private link, is there any way for me to share it here?
 

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Please find the link and research it before spreading what could be misinformation. There are too many people wandering around ballot counting centers watching the counters and each other. It's not quite like those drug weighing dens from the movies where the people are all naked but logically, pens must a restricted item (it only makes sense to issue them pencils or specifically colored pens, for example).
OK. After some searching, I managed to find the video. After looking at it several more times, the reason why I - along with anyone else who saw it - may think it's a type of voter fraud is because he looks around the room to see if anyone is looking at him before marking the ballot. Looking at the video further I see other staff / volunteers are doing the same thing. Perhaps they're correcting ballots? I'm not sure. But the whole part of him looking around the room to see if he's being watched is what's making a bunch of people (at best) speculate if this is "normal" or (at worst) speculate if this is a type of voter fraud.

I wasn't there and I don't know the whole of their process, so I'll admit now, I don't know.

Please don't "ding" me for the source. :p It's a video and no other text.

 

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Discussion Starter #418
OK. After some searching, I managed to find the video. After looking at it several more times, the reason why I - along with anyone else who saw it - may think it's a type of voter fraud is because he looks around the room to see if anyone is looking at him before marking the ballot. Looking at the video further I see other staff / volunteers are doing the same thing. Perhaps they're correcting ballots? I'm not sure. But the whole part of him looking around the room to see if he's being watched is what's making a bunch of people (at best) speculate if this is "normal" or (at worst) speculate if this is a type of voter fraud.

I wasn't there and I don't know the whole of their process, so I'll admit now, I don't know.

Please don't "ding" me for the source. :p It's a video and no other text.

If you look at the video, the overlay from yahoo mentions its from Germantown, MD (Montgomery County). This is enough for me to find the video so thanks for sharing.

A thorough investigation revealed no evidence of fraud or misconduct, Montgomery County officials said, but they’re concerned that the video may have spread some damaging misinformation.

“Something like this just feeds into people who believe mail-in voting is fraudulent,” said the county’s elections board chair, Jim Shalleck, a Republican appointed by Gov. Larry Hogan (R). “It’s very unfortunate.”


So this is just more disinformation being spread because the guy "looks suspicious". I would do your homework OR at least, post it so others can dig and find out the truth. Spreading videos like this does a disservice to our democracy because it questions the legitimacy of our election system (what's left of it).
 

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Let me preface this by saying that I believe this was as legitimate election as any, especially given the circumstances, but for four years democrats have run with the narrative that Russian interference and the electoral collage win/popular vote loss alone made Trump an illegitimate president and any means necessary to investigate and link him to collusion and remove him is necessary. Know why I keep mentioning precedent? This is why! “What goes around comes around”, “destroyed by a monster of your own creation”, “you reap what you sow” and such and such.

CDs, get off Facebook. The longer it takes people open their eyes and realize the partisan issues in this country are being exacerbated and exaggerated by their Twitter and Facebook and all other big corporate social media feeds for THEIR gain, the worse this pendulum will keep swinging. Am I the only one who noticed in how in about the time these sites emerged to now people went from having a distain for their president’s actions into straight up “not my president!”?
 

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CDs, get off Facebook. The longer it takes people open their eyes and realize the partisan issues in this country are being exacerbated and exaggerated by their Twitter and Facebook and all other big corporate social media feeds for THEIR gain, the worse this pendulum will keep swinging. Am I the only one who noticed in how in about the time these sites emerged to now people went from having a distain for their president’s actions into straight up “not my president!”?
On this, I wholeheartedly agree with Matt. FB is not a news/information source. It's pretty toxic with the only value being that you stay engaged. FB should be where you keep the grandparents/relatives entertained with pics of the kids and cat videos.

I'm not even sure that its even terribly healthy for keeping up with people in your social periphery but you don't care enough to actually call/reach out to because a lot of that just leads to envy and FOMO ("that snotty kid from HS just went on vacation to Belize during the pandemic? I want to go too"). That's not
 
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