TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
423 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I posted this up on modularfords.com with no replies yet, and you guys are always helpful.

Now that my thunderbird is away for the winter, Its time to plan some mods for it. As much as I wanted to stay NPI I realize that my goal of at least 250HP at the wheels and 300lb/ft at the wheels is out of the question without boost and alot of money. So PI swap it is. I'm going to go with parts from MHS. Before I ask them which heads and cam I should use, I thought it would be good to ask all of you guys what you suggest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Gonna need more than just a PI swap to get there. Even with all the main bolt ons I think you'll be just under. Bigger cams maybe even ported heads. 1MTNCAT got it with just PI heads (not ported) mild cams and a bullitt intake but not everyone will get that. Might want to look into E85 too..

What's the budget? Doing work yourself or paying someone? Also why 250 hp and 300 tq? Higher rear end gears will give you that feeling in the seat of your pants without adding any power. Hands down the best mod for a N/A MN12 boat IMO

PI swap with exhaust and 3.73/4.10 gears with a higher stall will give you a huge improvement without killing the wallet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
Last pi swap I did made 242rwhp stock 95 with pi swap cat back exhaust and pulleys
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
423 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I am interested in the frpp 4.10 differential, I am debating on that being my first major mod. Would it make sense to do the differential before the PI swap?
 

·
Super Moderator
1997 Thunderbird 4.6, 1998 Mark VIII LSC
Joined
·
9,452 Posts
Have a look at my setup that puts down pretty much exactly those numbers... although I was hoping it'd be more than that when I picked out all the parts, lol. :rolleyes: Here is the build thread. http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=137963

I've got a less-than-optimal intake though and I could really benefit from some good headers (I'd estimate I'd have an additional 20-30 RWHP with a good intake swap and mid-lengths/longtubes) A full-on stage 2.5 cam would have been a few extra peak HP on my setup, but I was more concerned with "area under the curve" than peak numbers since it's a street car.

You can do this npi, but you'll need some good heads and cams at the very least, possibly headers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
I am interested in the frpp 4.10 differential, I am debating on that being my first major mod. Would it make sense to do the differential before the PI swap?
I would. But that's just me. Gears are probably the first mod I would do knowing what I know now. Although with 4.10s you need a tune, and it's recommended to get the lube mod or whatever it is.

242 rwhp seems really high for a PI swap with pulleys and cat-back. Not saying it's impossible though. Was it on a dyno jet? From Ricks hp thread and the dyno graph thread seems like PI swap with bolt ons can range from 220-240 rwhp. :zdunno:..... I've gone back and forth on dyno numbers a million times and I think it's best to go by track times and mph instead. Much more concrete :cool:
 

·
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
Joined
·
3,734 Posts
Why stop at 250 rwhp? lol Just throw some Trick Flow heads on it and be done. I laid down my numbers on gas. Don't even have to port the heads to get good flow. It's worth the money, in my opinion.
 

·
Super Moderator
1997 Thunderbird 4.6, 1998 Mark VIII LSC
Joined
·
9,452 Posts
Just throw some Trick Flow heads on it and be done. [...] Don't even have to port the heads to get good flow.
What can I say, hindsight is 20/20, lol...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
Why stop at 250 rwhp? lol Just throw some Trick Flow heads on it and be done. I laid down my numbers on gas. Don't even have to port the heads to get good flow. It's worth the money, in my opinion.
You're using your stock 1996 block with those 38cc TF's? So your compression is over 11:1 unless you're using some custom head gaskets, right?

You have to run only 93 octane gas?
 

·
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
Joined
·
3,734 Posts
You're using your stock 1996 block with those 38cc TF's? So your compression is over 11:1 unless you're using some custom head gaskets, right?

You have to run only 93 octane gas?
Yes, stock NPI shortblock. Static compression is 11.2:1, calculated. I imagine I could run regular, but it'd run like a dog if I tried, otherwise, I use 93 when I'm running gas.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
Yes, stock NPI shortblock. Static compression is 11.2:1, calculated. I imagine I could run regular, but it'd run like a dog if I tried, otherwise, I use 93 when I'm running gas.
I'd be scared of pinging. My buddy had a 3v block with PI heads and was running static 11.4:1, calculated. The car ran like a scalded dog, even put down higher rwhp numbers than his SVO-SC powered TBird!

If he didn't run 93, you could hear it ping like crazy!
 

·
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
Joined
·
3,734 Posts
That's why I don't use 87. I could use it, but I'd have to take out a significant amount of timing in order to keep it from pinging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Rob is talking about my 95. Full PI with u/d pulleys, c&l upper and jerry tune. 242rwhp and 301rwtq. Mark tq converter 3.73's [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,435 Posts
There is no reason a pi swap shouldant make 240 plus, heck stock auto gt that wet pi motors made 220 plus rwhp, not to mention Ricky's car had over 130 miles

Robert
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
423 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Why stop at 250 rwhp? lol Just throw some Trick Flow heads on it and be done. I laid down my numbers on gas. Don't even have to port the heads to get good flow. It's worth the money, in my opinion.
250 seems like a good number my budget can afford for right now, the plan for this car is to be an autocross car. My main focus will be on the suspension, but more power is always good.
 

·
West Virginia Chapter Director /, MA Drag Race Te
Joined
·
2,643 Posts
Gonna need more than just a PI swap to get there. Even with all the main bolt ons I think you'll be just under. Bigger cams maybe even ported heads. 1MTNCAT got it with just PI heads (not ported) mild cams and a bullitt intake but not everyone will get that. Might want to look into E85 too..
Not quite. You are correct in I got it with the above mentioned mods with PI CAMS, Not aftermarket cams. Best ET NA 13.2 @ 103+ MPH. On Jerry's tune.

I never had the car dynoed with with the Bullett Stage 1 cams. Best ET NA 12.9 @ 105+MPH, tweaking the old tune at the track.

My take on it is like Roberts, he can get really close to those numbers. With auto cross, I'd think torque and or gear would be his friend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
Geez I wonder what it would have put down with the cams?

See I can see 220-230 rwhp with all the bolt ons on an MN12 I've seen stock PI mustangs with 5spds put down 220-230rwhp that equates to about 260ish hp at the crank. But for an MN12 with a PI swap, catback and pulleys put down 244 rwhp means he's making 298 hp at the crank with an 18% drivetrain loss. Seems a tad high for those mods. :zdunno:

I've seen crazier things though. Like when Nick M put stage 2 NPI cams and PI intake on a 97 bolt on 5spd mustang come out with 270rwhp :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
966 Posts
I thought our cars were more like 14-15% drive train loss. IIRC someone laid down 178 on a completely stock car, which is like 14.9% loss from 205.

So I think it'd be more in the ball park of 287 give or take. Not much less, but with an aggressive tune I'm sure it'd be close.

Hell a early 2000's mustang made 260 at the crank and I'm sure you could squeeze a little more with a tune. Add in compression and you'd be right around the 280 mark.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,910 Posts
...although I was hoping it'd be more than that when I picked out all the parts, lol. :rolleyes:
Are you sure you have the "RunFast" parameter set to 1 in the tune? :)

Although I did break the transmission just after that...

:D
 

·
Super Moderator
1997 Thunderbird 4.6, 1998 Mark VIII LSC
Joined
·
9,452 Posts
Don't tell me I've looked over yet another important scalar... :rofl:
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top