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Discussion Starter #1
i had no idea this was out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-2006-F250-V10-engine-complete-under-1000-miles-3v_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ006QQitemZ160045432524QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphotohosting

http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=1515&press_section_id=398&make_id=92

these things also come with 6-speed manuals.



we are going to see these all over ebay in a year or two. 362HP and 457FTLBS. you could definitely get some reground camshafts to even those numbers out and make that one bad setup. i don't care how much heavier it is. i don't care how cramped the engine bay would be. i don't care if you'd have to get a big ol' cowl hood or custom fab some intake pieces.

someone please put this in your car.
 

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Good idea, but exhaust manifolds are going to be a HUGE problem.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #3
making some headers should not be tough.

i think this engine is great because it's going to be so dirt cheap. you could be getting over 400 hp out of it easy with gobs of torque, and you'd probably pay a forth of what you would for a supercharged mustang cobra engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
big pete. you own the greatest combo cougar. black 96-97 with the 7 spoke wheels and sport package. it's so clean too.

my car is such a beater.
 

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So... Your plan is to get a V10 engine with a really long stroke, cram it in a car that weighs near 4000lbs, and then try to cram all of the electronics that came with the motor in there so you can control the extra 2 cyllanders?

I think the V8 is fine for me :)
 

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Silenced said:
So... Your plan is to get a V10 engine with a really long stroke, cram it in a car that weighs near 4000lbs, and then try to cram all of the electronics that came with the motor in there so you can control the extra 2 cyllanders?

I think the V8 is fine for me :)

Why not de-stroke it and rev the **** out of it.
 

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So where are you going to get a crankshaft with less stroke than that to Destroke it? Its a V10... Also, even if you could, you would just have a super low-compression engine with really long rods, and a big mechanic bill :)

If you want to go fast, stick with the 4.6. If you want to tow a bulldozer, get the V10
 

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Silenced said:
So... Your plan is to get a V10 engine with a really long stroke, cram it in a car that weighs near 4000lbs, and then try to cram all of the electronics that came with the motor in there so you can control the extra 2 cyllanders?
:D
sounds like a sweet plan to me. sign me up :D
 

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Silenced said:
That leaves you with a REALLY low compression engine with really long rods that you spent lots of money to make.

So I guess all those F1 cars with high revving, small stroke engines make no power then :rolleyes:


Granted you wan't be revving this to 19k but you get the point



To address your edit:

Silenced said:
So where are you going to get a crankshaft with less stroke than that to Destroke it? Its a V10... Also, even if you could, you would just have a super low-compression engine with really long rods, and a big mechanic bill
It's obviously out of your comfort zone. If you want to buy off the shelf parts and tell everyone how fast your car is with bolt-ons, that's your choice. For people who like a bit more of an engineering challenge and like to think out of his box, why **** in his picnic basket because it seems too much work, to you.


Silenced said:
If you want to go fast, stick with the 4.6. If you want to tow a bulldozer, get the V10
Is that so? A 351 would be faster for less. Do we want to start playing that game?
 

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Just so you can tell me how much more ridiculous an idea it is, read about the 5.8L Mustang V10 Concept that Ford did for ****s and giggles. If it fit in a Mustang, I don't see why not in a Tbird.


From page to of the Motortrend Article:

Ford's SVT/SVE and the Ford Racing shops had nothing to do with it, and this engine is in no way related to the 6.8-liter/310-horsepower SOHC Triton V-10 used in F-250 pickups
.

Ok, no biggie. If I remember the MM&FF article (can't find it atm), all they did was take the 4.6L and slap 2 more cylinders on the end to achieve the V10 for this concept car.


Fortunately, when you work at a major automaker, the parts bin is exceptionally large, and important stray pieces are floating around if you know where to scrounge. This V-10's pistons, valves, and connecting rods are all shared with the 32-valve 4.6-liter Modular V-8. The camshafts, of course, are custom, but they use the same grind profile as the V-8.

Still, some things had to be fabricated outside of Ford or on the engineers' own time. For example, the cylinder heads and block are special castings. The oil pan, intake manifold, and 54-degree crank also are one-offs. Fortunately, the accessory belt-drive system is another component borrowed directly from the Modular V-8 family. Since there's no Ford computer software or electronic hardware for a V-10 of this type, this 351 takes its signals from two blinking dash-mounted control units that run each five-hole cylinder bank independently.
So much for all your special 'electronics'. Also, since we know what pistons it used, we know bore diameter, and can calculate stroke.

So:

displacement in liters = [pi*(bore/2)^2] *[stroke] * [number of cylinders] / 61.0237441 cubic inches per liter

On a 4.6L we know:
bore = 3.55118110236 inches (90.2mm)
stroke = 3.54330708661 inches (90mm)

Since we know the V10 had a displacement of 5.8L we get a stroke of ~3.573.





formatting
 

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Fusion0507 said:
If it fit in a Mustang, I don't see why not in a Tbird.
Really? AWESOME! I'll just go pick up an 04 Cobra motor and slap it in there no problem then!...:rolleyes:

-Joel
 

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Fusion0507 said:
It's obviously out of your comfort zone. If you want to buy off the shelf parts and tell everyone how fast your car is with bolt-ons, that's your choice. For people who like a bit more of an engineering challenge and like to think out of his box, why **** in his picnic basket because it seems too much work, to you.
Its not out of my comfort zone, its just a crazy idea from the twilight zone. Yes, it might fit, and Yes, it makes 360hp at the crank. If you want to put all of the work into it, and make power one of the hardest ways possible, then be that way. I'm just saying that it isn't a realistic idea.

I don't consider bolt-ons as a good power maker just as I don't consider you a compitent engineer for the task you proposed. You made a comment about destroking a V10 engine, when there is no possible crankshaft to destroke it with, aswell as having to get custom rods and pistons made (10 of each!) just so you have a NORMAL compression ratio, and so that the stroke ends in the correct place in the cyllander. After this, you still have to worry about letting the engine breathe, and getting some CUSTOM parts such as cams! Have fun with that.

You can't even COMPAIR this to F1 engines. Those things are designed from almost scratch, not mutilated from ford's truck parts.

If you want to play :zbench: with me, you better do some reading first.
 

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Fusion0507 said:
If it fit in a Mustang, I don't see why not in a Tbird.
:uppoint:

-Rod
 

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While we're talkin' here...

How big can a Romeo block be bored to?

Is there a possiblity of big bore in anything other than a Al block?

Why don't these engines turn major revs, other than intake port/valve issues?
(seems the dohc would spin more r's too, somehow...Especially blown...)

Any one have any insight?
 

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Silenced said:
I don't consider bolt-ons as a good power maker just as I don't consider you a compitent engineer for the task you proposed. You made a comment about destroking a V10 engine, when there is no possible crankshaft to destroke it with, aswell as having to get custom rods and pistons made (10 of each!) just so you have a NORMAL compression ratio, and so that the stroke ends in the correct place in the cyllander. After this, you still have to worry about letting the engine breathe, and getting some CUSTOM parts such as cams! Have fun with that.

Again, you want to play the off-the-shelf parts bin guy, go ahead. Off the shelf parts are largely irrelevant to me.

As for the engineer crack, I'm in junior year with a mechanical engineering major. I guess the hurdles you and I see are different. But hey, I guess I'm full of ****...




I asked a while back about torsional stiffness numbers for the Tbird body and said to really know where to strengthen the subframe you'd need FEA. Some asshat on here laughed at me and told me he'd just weld some **** up and drive his car and rolled his eyes at me. Everyone can laugh all they want. But just remember why theres no real engineered parts for Tbirds; everyone cries that no one makes parts instead of getting off your asses and doing any real engineering yourselves.

Now I remember why I stopped posting here.
 

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Fusion, what you're failing to ponder is that there are those out there with literally unlimited budgets and unlimited engineering and fabrication capabilities. Whether these people are working with Mustangs or Thunderbirds, they are NOT running V10s. There is a reason for this. If the V10 was Ford's best motor, don't you think it'd be in ANYTHING other than a truck? Nobody is telling you it can't be done, they're telling you that it's not an original idea. It's been explored and found not worthy of the effort. Deal with it.
 

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Lemme guess, you stopped posting because you don't own a Thunderbird or Cougar anymore? :eek:

And the whole engineer thing doesn't mean crap. I'm a junior ME at one of the #1 rated engineering schools in the nation. Big deal. In the grand scheme of things, what I've learned in these books and classrooms means exactly nothing without real world experience and common sense. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean that it should be.
 
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