4.6 cougar pings at wot 3.5k - 5.5k egr solenoid vac lines

609 Views 20 Replies 4 Participants Last post by Grog6, 10 d ago

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

I installed a gt air intake recently and replaced a valvecover gasket.. in the process i broke the vaccum lines that run off the fpr and egr. i rerouted the lines to the tb so the fpr and egr has vacuum but now engine is pinging at wot high rpms.
A friend told me that the egr solenoid wouldnt cause pinging. but besides the air intake it was the only thing that changed.. tried 2 different maf sensors too and cleaned both..
Does anyone know how important the egr assembly solenoid/2 vac lines that run off it is and if it could cause my issue? Only other thing i can think of is more air making it ping because of the k&n intake. Reset pcm still pings even unplugging egr solenoid

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

Grog6

· #2 · 1 mo ago

If you used the
GT maf, you need a tune for it. You're running lean, and it will cause problems if you don't fix it.

T6Rocket

· #3 · 1 mo ago

Those two vacuum lines are very important, make sure they are sealed.

I've had the drop in K&N filter make our old MN-12's ping a little at WOT. Those MAF's are a fickle unit. I've had the most luck with eliminating the WOT pinging with a brand new unit. Get the good one, Hitachi, Delphi, etc.

Al

theterminator93

· #4 · 1 mo ago (Edited)

Grog6 said:
If you used the GT maf, you need a tune for it. You're running lean, and it will cause problems if you don't fix it.

^^ This. You can't change anything about the MAF (or injectors, for that matter) without updating the computer with the new flow data. With a higher capacity MAF, not only would you be running lean, you would have too much spark advance. A double potency formula for spark knock.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #5 · 1 mo ago

Im using the same sensor different housing.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #6 · 1 mo ago

Also i have had a k&n drop in prior to this. it didnt ping, but again to be clear the vac lines that go to my egr control solenoid are non existent i plugged them off. Im wondering if egr would cause it. I have tried both housings and sensors.
Also i have had pinging in this car before due to maf and it felt different than the pinging im experiencing now. It was more at cruising conditions than under load like the car was bogging. This feels more up top

theterminator93

· #7 · 1 mo ago

LukesCougar said:
Im using the same sensor different housing.

That would do it. The sensor and housing must match. You can't put the factory MAF sensor onto the 80mm housing for the Mustang intake tube without altering its flow-rate characteristics.

The MAF sensor is the single most important sensor on these engines (well, along with the crank position sensor...

). It's extremely precise and ANYTHING that changes the airflow characteristics around it requires a reprogramming of the PCM to account for those changes.

Fixes:
1) Put your factory MAF sensor and housing back on and use adapters to mate it to the GT air tube
2) Use the GT MAF and housing and get a tune
3) Keep your factory MAF in the GT housing and get a tune (will require a wideband O2 and dyno tuning because the MN12 sensor on a GT housing is not typical)
4) Put the factory MAF, housing and air tube back on

There isn't an option 5.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #8 · 30 d ago

What size are the birds/cougars maf housings vs mustang. When comparing eye to eye they didnt look different in size one was just plastic and had a mesh filter.

theterminator93

· #9 · 30 d ago

The factory MN12 MAF sensor housing is 70mm.

Bear in mind fluid dynamics are at work here - there's a lot more to airflow characteristcs that define the response curve of the MAF sensor element than the size of the housing it's mounted in. You have to keep the sensor mounted in the housing it was tuned/designed for.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #10 · 30 d ago

[QUOTE="theterminator93 said:
That would do it. The sensor and housing must match. You can't put the factory MAF sensor onto the 80mm housing for the Mustang intake tube without altering its flow-rate characteristics.

The MAF sensor is the single most important sensor on these engines (well, along with the crank position sensor... ). It's extremely precise and ANYTHING that changes the airflow characteristics around it requires a reprogramming of the PCM to account for those changes.

Fixes:
1) Put your factory MAF sensor and housing back on and use adapters to mate it to the GT air tube
2) Use the GT MAF and housing and get a tune
3) Keep your factory MAF in the GT housing and get a tune (will require a wideband O2 and dyno tuning because the MN12 sensor on a GT housing is not typical)
4) Put the factory MAF, housing and air tube back on

There isn't an option 5.

Would the crank sensor be good maintenance to replace even if its not at fault. My engine bay has gotten dirty at times..
I will be putting stock housing/box on tomorrow and see if pinging goes away.

Not related but im also trying to clean up how the car idles. I have new coils ordered, egr assembly lines, new plugs, plan on cleaning egr/ throttle body and replacing pcv, and worn vac lines. Its always had a small miss at idle and never could figure out what it was but ive never replaced my coil packs and i hear they can go without even throwing a code?

theterminator93

· #11 · 30 d ago

I wouldn't mess with the CKPS - they rarely fail completely (usually it's the harness that begins to short) but when that happens it's a no start/no run condition. The PCM needs the CKPS to know when the fire the spark plugs - so no (or intermittent) CKPS signal = no start/no run.

Coils are also one of the components on these that rarely go bad, but a complete tuneup is always a good idea especially if you're not sure when one was last done.

Let us know how swapping back to the stock MAF setup works out.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #12 · 29 d ago

theterminator93 said:
I wouldn't mess with the CKPS - they rarely fail completely (usually it's the harness that begins to short) but when that happens it's a no start/no run condition. The PCM needs the CKPS to know when the fire the spark plugs - so no (or intermittent) CKPS signal = no start/no run.

Coils are also one of the components on these that rarely go bad, but a complete tuneup is always a good idea especially if you're not sure when one was last done.

Let us know how swapping back to the stock MAF setup works out.

No pinging after going back to stock intake. Ill keep the gt intake around until i can get the car tuned.
Car still has small miss at idle.. and feels to struggle to idle at stopsigns.. Its always been like that i plan on replacing most vacuum lines, clean egr/throttle body and replace pcv. Ill probably do as much as i can without taking the intake manifold off unless that is actually the problem..
In all i have bought 2 new 02s, screaming demon coils, new egr assembly solenoid/with vaccume lines..
idk what plugs to get, i aready have brand new wires.. also probably gonna run to rual king for rubber tubing for the other cracked and worn hoses.

T6Rocket

· #13 · 29 d ago

LukesCougar said:
screaming demon coils

There's your problem right there. Ford parts all the way, especially coils. They're not cheap, but they last. Approx $150 at Village Ford.

These cars don't make enough power stock to need a different intake tube.

Al

Grog6

· #14 · 28 d ago

Te only reason to use the gt tube is the better maf, but it needs a tune. K&N filters are a problem; you wont see any improvement, and the oil coats the MAF elements, and messes them up, requiring frequent cleaning. A new stock air filter at every oil change is better.

Reactions: 1

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #15 · 28 d ago

T6Rocket said:
There's your problem right there. Ford parts all the way, especially coils. They're not cheap, but they last. Approx $150 at Village Ford.

These cars don't make enough power stock to need a different intake tube.

Al

Have yet to install the demon coils still using the 190k old ones

the car runs fairly well now getting to 60 in around 7.9-8.1 seconds like it should but i still have a small miss at idle that gets worse when hot, only engine fault is p0141 i have 2 new o2s just havent put them in yet. Im not sure its the right fix but the sensors were cheap i thought i might aswell.
rn im just waiting on the coils but i alr have the 02s. was gonna do them both the same day and then reset the computer..
Now that the pinging is gone the only issue i have is miss at idle and it struggles at stop sings sometimes. Im hoping its mostly related to the 02 fault, or gunked up throttle body. i dont feel like my engine is hurt because it doesnt really burn much of any oil and still feels like it has all its torque

theterminator93

· #16 · 28 d ago

The PCM sets idle speed by varying the IAC duty cycle and fine tunes the RPM by varying spark advance. If the IAC is slow to respond, if vacuum leaks are present, the actual A:F isn't stoich (either by the FPR having issues or your O2s being off) then idle will be unstable. Vacuum leaks account for a much higher percentage of unmetered air at idle than under moving conditions so with no other mechanical deficiencies issues manifest under idle conditions.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #17 · 26 d ago

theterminator93 said:
The PCM sets idle speed by varying the IAC duty cycle and fine tunes the RPM by varying spark advance. If the IAC is slow to respond, if vacuum leaks are present, the actual A:F isn't stoich (either by the FPR having issues or your O2s being off) then idle will be unstable. Vacuum leaks account for a much higher percentage of unmetered air at idle than under moving conditions so with no other mechanical deficiencies issues manifest under idle conditions.

I replaced all vaccum lines, installed the demon coils. still misfires at hot idle.. but it does run better and starts on a dime after replacing vaccum tubes and coils.
Also im running stock 8mm wires and autolites. Still the only engine fault i have is for the 02 sensor. which i plan on replacing soon and will update if misfire is gone.
In the meantime do u guys have any advice on the best spark plug for our cars? Also will the premium 8m wires do fine with the demon coils? ive heard they can melt but mine seem to be doing alr. Idk if that will change long term though.

theterminator93

· #18 · 26 d ago

APP104

Grog6

· #19 · 25 d ago

Motorcraft wires will last a few years. All the others will die sooner; some in as little as a year. Double Platinum plugs will last 100k without issues. All others will be needing replacement in 10k miles.

LukesCougar

Discussion Starter · #20 · 10 d ago

I replaced most of my vacuum tubes. car idles a lot better, but something ive noticed is that the pcv tube i replaced near the bottom drivers side of the plenum is getting so much vacuum that it collapses. Is this normal? I got a thicker emission hose too and this one will also collapse...
Im not burning much oil and there isnt any noticeable blowy or anything that really scares me, but the pcv does make a whistling noise when the tube collapses.

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