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Discussion Starter #21
Oh sh##t now I'm really hooked on that idea put a 4V in.
Thank you so much guys for the awesome response was a real pleasure as always.

Hoschy
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Nick McKenney quote: (actually from na svt)
If you are going to go 4V find a 99+ Continental and take the heads complete. Degree the cams to 106-108 intake and leave the exhaust at 110 (the conti intake cams are bigger than the Marks), it will require a serious mod to the secondary gears to do this. Combine with a Mach 1 intake and thats as good as it gets without spending serious cash.


NA SVT: The 96-98 intake cams will make about 20 more hp than the MAch intakes (cams). The difference between the 96-98s and the 99s is only 2 deg so the power difference is also little.
Okay Guys i try to find the information what exactly need to be modified on the cams to get to the 106° centerline does somebody here got the instructions??

thx
hoschy
 

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I cant find the upper set I have anywhere, but they are from MMR and are keyed for multiple offsets like the ones in Grog6 post but the kit comes with 4 gears 2 spacers and new keys.
I have continental cams in my massaged heads with the intake 3° advance and the exhaust strait up.
I went with these because my heads are cut and the block is decked so I had to adjust the cams to keep from loosing the bottom end, and I have had problems with the adjustable ones coming loose after a lot of abuse. These are a much bigger pain to set up though as you have to degree and then take apart then degree and take apart and over and over until you have it set where you want.
As opposed to the adjustable ones that you just set and clamp down, lock-tite, then recheck.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Cloyes discontinued them earlier of this year. I saw that Summit racing sold them individually for $38 each back in May.
Well modular motorsport got everything what is needed thats the good news.
Just got a very nice and clean MarkVIII engine and very nice clean 04 aviator Heads since they are the closest to the FR500 castings for less than 800$$.
Next thing i need to get is a sullivan intake , a msd mod 6 ignition and put all this together and call it the poor mans coyote build.
The only thing i am worried about is that timing procedure i*m not familiar with .Sombody ever degreed the cams on a 4V here in the forum and can give me some tips??
I got the timing tools for locking in the crank and lock the cams so far so good. i got the ford service manual but there is no word of degreeing the cams just put the dots together, but degreeing the cams is highly stressed in books about the modular engines because of stacked tolerances in the timing components.any help would be aparechiated!!!
 

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The procedure is pretty much the same as any other engine, find TDC, measure lobe opening/closing and calculate and adjust from them, and repeat. With Modulars you need to do both banks, so cylinders 1 & 6, and with a 4V you degree the exhaust cams first, as the intake cams are driven off of them. Make sure you mark the exhaust sprocket positions after you degree them, since they need to come off to adjust the intakes. You need a solid lash adjuster too for the process.


Skip the MSD junk. Stock DIS is more powerful than you'll need and 100% more reliable
 

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Discussion Starter #30
The procedure is pretty much the same as any other engine, find TDC, measure lobe opening/closing and calculate and adjust from them, and repeat. With Modulars you need to do both banks, so cylinders 1 & 6, and with a 4V you degree the exhaust cams first, as the intake cams are driven off of them. Make sure you mark the exhaust sprocket positions after you degree them, since they need to come off to adjust the intakes. You need a solid lash adjuster too for the process.


Skip the MSD junk. Stock DIS is more powerful than you'll need and 100% more reliable
thanks for the heads up
i got nothing in my t bird the wiring was stock 93 5.0 pushrod all stripped because i want to run the motor of a carburetor and the 6r80 needs his own controller to work just need a tps .
As far as the timing issue is concerned i guess time to look for a video i can get this better in my head if i see a video :smile2:
 

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Here's Comp Cams instructions; they're pretty thorough.

EDIT: I left this out:
http://www.compcams.com/technical/instructions/files/comp4-102.pdf

From my gathered notes:

Nick McKenney quote: (actually from na svt)
If you are going to go 4V find a 99+ Continental and take the heads complete. Degree the cams to 106-108 intake and leave the exhaust at 110 (the conti intake cams are bigger than the Marks), it will require a serious mod to the secondary gears to do this. Combine with a Mach 1 intake and thats as good as it gets without spending serious cash.


na svt:
- Ensure there is counterclockwise tension on the cams when checking the lobe centers.
- Degree int his order, left exh, left int, rt exhaust, rt int.
- Do not install the pass side gears/chains until the driver side is compeleted
- Install the followers only after the degreeing is complete

" Ensure there is counterclockwise tension on the cams when checking the lobe centers".

Just want to make sure this means : rotate crank counter clockwise like .150 before max lobe lift then clockwise come up to .050 before max lobe lift then clockwise again to .050 after max lift. What your saying is all actions in the "before and after max cam lobe readings" should all be in the clockwise rotation to load chains properly.

Yes and this requires a third hand.

IMHO do not use anything smaller than an 18" wheel.


That's all the advice I've found that wasn't in the procedure. :)
 

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thanks for the heads up
i got nothing in my t bird the wiring was stock 93 5.0 pushrod all stripped because i want to run the motor of a carburetor and the 6r80 needs his own controller to work just need a tps .
As far as the timing issue is concerned i guess time to look for a video i can get this better in my head if i see a video :smile2:
I see, I didn’t put 2 and 2 together that this was a buildup for a 93.

The degreeing is really not that bad if you look at like you’re degreeing 4 separate pushrod engines :tongue: Grog’s tips are all good too, start with the driver side exhaust since that chain is behind the passenger side one.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Thank you all for the advice and help,is greatly apprechiated.
I have still some parts to get before i start tearing into the motor and take the b heads of and put the new ones on . The temperatur need to be also in a more likeable range to have proper readings since the garage is not heated.On a sidenote i also work on a coilover setup for mn 12*s which if it works the way i want it should open a way for us to get our hands on coilovers cheaper than any other sellers, i keep you guys posted
 

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Shop around, you could save some coin from that kit. Make your own base out of a piece of flat steel for the dial indicator base. You will need extensions for the dial indicator.
I used solid lifters from Modular Motor Racing for $30 each. I bought 2 lifters, so that I could speed up the process and do each bank.
Read ya later, Nick
 

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People tend to avoid the 4v for points mostly stated here already. 4v swaps get expensive quickly. The last thing people want is to do a complete swap just to find out that they make 10hp more than stock. Truly upgrading a 4v to make power gets expensive.

Generally speaking mark viii motors tend to be the most cost efficient engines however they come with B-heads, and not very good ones until 96-98 when they got better valve springs like the cobra's. 96-98 cobra's had the best intake manifold for the b-head besides a custom sheet metal intake like the one from MMR, Logan, Hogan, etc... C-heads have the most potential however they are also the most expensive 4v's in complete form.

Just like all other mod motors you can play around with different heads, different intakes, and different cams, but you'll find ultimately there aren't a lot that fit. I bought a 3" VFN hood to clear my 98 cobra intake manifold and prep for a centrifugal supercharger and if I recall correctly Matt initially shimmed his K-member down to clear his c-head intake on a 94-95 hood.

If you are building a 4v from scratch it will get expensive quickly. You'll find that good aftermarket cams cost about $1500 not including valve springs, retainers, keepers, or cylinder head reworking. Beefing up the bottom end isn't cheap on any mod motor either.

So let's say you want a b-head configuration cheapest 93-98 lincoln, you'll need to retain functionality of the IMRC's (intake manifold runner control valves) or delete them and compensate with more torque converter stall ($800-$1200 torque converter) then you'll consider building the transmission or swapping for a manual and if IMRC's are deleted regearing ($500-$1000 rear differential rebuild and gear change) which will also make you want a limited slip differential (whole different discussion) also changing gears more than 2 steps up will require a tune, and speed cal.

Basically modifying cars is expensive. Take your anticipated budget and multiply it by 4-8 for a 4v that wont upset you immediately. Any 4v swap will require a retune $500-$1000 depending on who does it and what devices you purchase. You'll also need kooks midlength headers, modify a set of cobra headers, completely custom headers, or factory lincoln mark viii exhaust manifolds which the drivers side has a catalytic converter build onto it. Depending on how complete the engine is you'll run into EGR issues and or AIR (smog pump issues). Don't forget the legal hell you can get in if you live in a smog state.

You'll want or need all the supporting harnesses and ECM's as well since you have a 1993, someone here did a full swap on a 89-93 from v6 to v8 dohc and swapped interiors.

Basically the most successful 4v swaps were done from 4.6 SOHC to 4.6 DOHC, I can only recall one successful documented v6 to 4.6 DOHC, and there are several hurdles to overcome. Steering shafts, computers, maf, injectors, throttle cable, tuning, gearing, transmission, emissions, wiring harnesses, etc...

ALL THAT BEING SAID, I love my 4.6 DOHC.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I think I have anyway a expensive swap ahead,it's not only the dohc swap there is also the 6r80 trans swap ,drive shaft,computers to control engine and trans so it will be pricy anyway
 

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My 95 T-Bird DOHC engine rebuild and put back on the road has been a major undertaking.
The car blew head gasket in 04, probably because it wasn't tuned properly.
It has taken a lot of trial and error, and a lot of $$$ to make it right this time.
I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, finally..
It could be a train.
 
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