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Discussion Starter #1
havent been on the boards in a while, just finished up with highschool so i been pretty busy.

i recently came across a 97 30th aniversary xr7 and im planning to make it my street/strip car. as a starting point for the motor ive been looking into aftermarket 4.6 and 4.6 stroker blocks but dont know which i should go with. im leaning towards livernois, but id like to hear what other people think.

i also have another question. for the time being i plan on keeping stock heads etc but replacing the short block, would there be any modifications (ECU or otherwise) i would need to run the cougar with a new short block?

any and all input welcome, thanks.
 

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A performance shortblock with stock heads...what a waste of money. Do yourself a favor and skip any plans to stroke the motor. A longer stroke is the last thing these motors need.
xeleventybillion
 

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The "Big Three"

Any internal combustion engine's power and torque curves are 90% determined by the "Big 3", Heads, Cams, Intake. If you are leaving your heads stock (where the cams are BTW), you're gonna have a hard time raising your power curve over stock just modifying the stroke. Master486 is absolutely correct here (he is most all the time anyways...:D)

Street/Strip? Port your heads (doing a PI head/cam swap on your 97) would give you the best bang. PI intake will work great for you too. If you really want to go from mild to wild, check out some aftermarket cams after you do the PI head/intake swap. Let someone qualified dial it all in for you to avoid PTV contact.

I'm sure some others here who have done mods will pipe in with something similar or maybe not...lol :zdunno:
 

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Destroked bigbore! Someone do it!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I know some people like to bore rather than stroke. I've always loved the stroker motors. I had a mark vii with a 347 stroker. as far asthe stock heads I know I won't see an enormous power increase but it's just temporary until I save up for the heads and cams I want and I just want to know if I can do it for now.

something else I have been looking into is an svt lightning motor swap. has anybody ever done this or have any input on it. I'm not making any final decisions until I know it's the best one.

just FYI down the road inplan on running a procharger setup between 15-20lbs of boost with methanol injection. trans will be built, with what parts, I'm not sure yet either
 

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You can't compare a 347 stroker to a modular stroker, they are entirely different animals. The 4.6 already has MORE stroke than a 347, but the bore is significantly less than a stock 302... hell, less than the smogger 255's in the early 80's! so which one would be a better idea to increase? Hmm...
 

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A mod engine (stroker or not) is way to expensive to make go fast
That's a giant pile of BS right there. It's only "way too expensive" if you buy the useless crap like $200 throttle bodies, $100 TB spacers, and $200 plenums that give you absolutely no real gain. For much less than the cost of all that, you can get an entire PI intake. For just a bit over $500, you can get a set of good cams. So let's see, $750 can get you cams and an intake... or $500 can get you a throttle body, spacer, and plenum that give you nothing. Maybe a little bit from the plenum... only if you've got a centrifugal blowing through it.
It's only "way too expensive" for the people that don't think before they buy.
 

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then there is also the fact that engine's aren't fast by themselves...they need to be attached to a car :)

in Miller's defense, I do believe he was referring to the fact that Mod motor'd cars (MN12s to be precise) are "expensive" to get fast, mainly because the user only thinks about horsepower mods.....and its true that it gets expensive quick, because a lot of newbs only focus on engine mods because they just dont know any better (or perhaps they do but dont want to spend on drivetrain mods because its their only car and they secretly want to keep their fuel economy, but don't want to say so)...keeping a stock 12" converter than can only do 5400 RPMs, a stock 3.08 or 3.27 differential will definitely make things expensive on the other side of the car: in the engine bay
 

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campared to the lsx motors and 5.0's i would say the modulars are more expensive to mod. and the fact that the thunderbird is a tank adds to that.. :zwall:

because a lot of newbs only focus on engine mods because they just dont know any better (or perhaps they do but dont want to spend on drivetrain mods because its their only car and they secretly want to keep their fuel economy, but don't want to say so)...keeping a stock 12" converter than can only do 5400 RPMs, a stock 3.08 or 3.27 differential will definitely make things expensive on the other side of the car: in the engine bay

exactly my problem. 410 gears +stall or a blower. either way you will spend money to make the modular go.
 

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Yes, that I can agree with. Although the gear change is fairly cheap IMO. I've focused mostly on motor mods with my car simply because I've run into deals on my parts that I'd be stupid to pass up. I have 4.10's and a Jmod but still stock converter, and my motor absolutely needs to spin past 5400 now. I'm just waiting on a good TC deal to come around whenever I have the money for it.

And miller also suggested dropping a 351W in.. and leaving it at that. So not only are you defending him... you're also describing his current thought process. :)
 

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campared to the lsx motors and 5.0's i would say the modulars are more expensive to mod. and the fact that the thunderbird is a tank adds to that.. :zwall:
5.0's were cheaper a decade ago, today they are about even. Cheap head cam intake swaps on a 5.0 are GT40 cobra/explorer stuff, that would be the equivelent of a PI h/c/i swap on a npi 4.6. Aftermarket prices for good bottom end components can cost about the same. Machine work...the same. Blowers... the same. Mod motors can cost big in the cam and valvetrain department for obvious reasons (namely 4V), but then again late model 5.0 Blocks are garbage in big power applications so any High rpm or 500+ horsepower build will need a better block ($$$$), whereas just about any modular block is a good foundation. In the end when you add up the costs its a toss up on whats actually cheaper.

And LSX's arent cheap, that would be comparable to a terminator motor in terms of the initial cost.


Not to mention, nickel and diming an engine build with the "This is cheaper to build than that" mentality will only lead to one half assed product.
 

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Although the gear change is fairly cheap IMO.
you're absolutely right...its not that expensive....probably less than $500 for gears, a rebuild kit, T-lok unit, and labor if you shop around.....and with the right gears, it can make these pigs we call mn12s accelerate a heck of a lot faster.....but notice how the 18yr old thread starter is focusing on engine stuff?....yea I emphasized his age, not because 18 is too young to know anything, but because its a common thing here on this site.....they just want to focus on bragging about having more power under the hood

the issue with gearing one of these cars properly is that to truly maximize the potential, one would need gearing far higher (numerically) than they can live with on a daily basis.....mainly because once you go 4.10+ (which is the absolute minimum these cars need to get out of their own way), you need to take into account the cost of highway fuel economy, an Xcal programmer and tune-cost, and the cost of a speedcal or similar device to correct the speedometer and signal going to the pcm, some good tires, and an upgraded driveshaft....thats an easy $1000+ cost right there that most newbs just won't (can't) spend...."all for what?", the newbs ask?......to make the damn gears work in harmony with the car they are installed in.....round and round the performance circle we go.....
 
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