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HP Peformance, from what I know is a(n)...

  • excellent choice, because...

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • good choice, because...

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • don't know

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  • bad choice, because...

    Votes: 3 23.1%

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Discussion Starter #1
Now with my wedding plans off :(... it seems likely I will be seeking out a turbo kit for my 5.0 Cougar. I am looking at what HP Performance has to offer, seems like they do good work... I see they are soon to offer a 3.8 SC kit... which makes it seem like a kit for a 5.0 Cougar would be simple, basically cobbling parts from the upcoming SC kit and the vast amount of 5.0 mustang inventory.

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Turbo Kits.htm

What do you guys think... since I haven't the time or ambition to build a kit myself, do you turbo experts think HP performance offers a good kit?
 

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Tell them to ditch out the H-pipe (at least that's what it appears to be) and sell it less the cost of the H pipe. H pipes are a waste with a turbo car. Actually they will reduce performance. You want a straight, wide open path from each turbo to either a Y piece and single pipe of double the diameter of the pipes leaving the turbo, or just two independent pipes, each leading straight back to their own straight-through muffler.

You don't want backpressure-creating setups after the turbo in the exhaust path. That slows down spool. And besides the turbine housings themselves provide plenty of backpressure as it is. For the same reasons I told Bill, you need the end volume after a turbo to be larger to allow the expanding exhaust gases room to expand quicker and easier.

Drop the price of the H-pipe section and the rest of it looks ok. Those turbos are way too big for a stock setup tho, if you run with those, you'd better be running waaay lower compression forged pistons.

Oh wait I haven't even considered price! GEEZ $4,500? Is that typical for a V8 kit? Owch. No thanks. Bill has the right idea with DIY.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Arro said:
Tell them to ditch out the H-pipe (at least that's what it appears to be) and sell it less the cost of the H pipe. H pipes are a waste with a turbo car. Actually they will reduce performance. You want a straight, wide open path from each turbo to either a Y piece and single pipe of double the diameter of the pipes leaving the turbo, or just two independent pipes, each leading straight back to their own straight-through muffler.

You don't want backpressure-creating setups after the turbo in the exhaust path. That slows down spool. And besides the turbine housings themselves provide plenty of backpressure as it is. For the same reasons I told Bill, you need the end volume after a turbo to be larger to allow the expanding exhaust gases room to expand quicker and easier.

Drop the price of the H-pipe section and the rest of it looks ok. Those turbos are way too big for a stock setup tho, if you run with those, you'd better be running waaay lower compression forged pistons.

Oh wait I haven't even considered price! GEEZ $4,500? Is that typical for a V8 kit? Owch. No thanks. Bill has the right idea with DIY.
Thanks for the input.

Actually, I think the kit installed is more than 4500... but I neither have the time, expertise or will to do it myself...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
More questions...

Will my stock block (actually a ford racing crate, but I doubt it's anything different than stock) hold up to 500rwhp?

And will my recently moderately built up Aod hold up to 500rwhp?

This may be a dumb question, but is turbo charged power hard/gentle/same as other methods of making more hp such as, rpm's, SC, or nitrous oxide?
 

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Out of all the power adders, turbocharging is the easiest on parts. "Spool up" time is generally somewhere between a positive displacement blower and a centrifical. (with a properly sized turbo, and other factors.)

It doesn't give that instant hit of power to the drivetrain like N2o, or a roots/twin screw blower, and it dosn't strain the end of the crank with more belt pressure like a centrifical blower does.

As for the tranny and block, I would keep the power around 450rwhp for maximum reliability, but the 5.0L blocks have been known to with stand more. Your just taking a risk, thats all.
 

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Stoltz13 said:
More questions...

Will my stock block (actually a ford racing crate, but I doubt it's anything different than stock) hold up to 500rwhp?

And will my recently moderately built up Aod hold up to 500rwhp?

This may be a dumb question, but is turbo charged power hard/gentle/same as other methods of making more hp such as, rpm's, SC, or nitrous oxide?
Your engine won't hold up. You have a cast crank and hypereutectic pistons. IIRC, you got the GT40 FRPP long block and that is the specs on it. Any serious power adder will push your block far too hard and 500rwhp would mean that you would need to put out over 600HP at the crank.

You needed to be thinking about doing this when you bought your engine. Obviously I voted that it was a bad idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
1WLD BRD said:
Out of all the power adders, turbocharging is the easiest on parts. "Spool up" time is generally somewhere between a positive displacement blower and a centrifical. (with a properly sized turbo, and other factors.)

It doesn't give that instant hit of power to the drivetrain like N2o, or a roots/twin screw blower, and it dosn't strain the end of the with more belt pressure like a centrifical blower does.

As for the tranny and block, I would keep the power around 450rwhp for maximum reliability, but the 5.0L blocks have been known to with stand more. Your just taking a risk, thats all.
Thanks... that's kind of what I expected^^^

With a turbo you can basically mess with the wastegate to adjust how much boost/hp you want, right? So could I possibly trim it back a bit for daily driving and turn it up at the track?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
MaddMartigan said:
Your engine won't hold up. You have a cast and hypereutectic pistons. IIRC, you got the GT40 FRPP long block and that is the specs on it. Any serious power adder will push your block far too hard and 500rwhp would mean that you would need to put out over 600HP at the .

You needed to be thinking about doing this when you bought your engine. Obviously I voted that it was a bad idea.
I wish I had thought of this... I truly believed that my current mods would be enough!

What exactly will I be facing with my block, and pistons... Say I break a ... could I just do the build up then? I do have the stock block laying around... how much of a gamble would I be taking?
 

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Stoltz13 said:
I wish I had thought of this... I truly believed that my current mods would be enough!

What exactly will I be facing with my block, and pistons... Say I break a ... could I just do the build up then? I do have the stock block laying around... how much of a gamble would I be taking?
It's a gamble but all power adders really are. Like any other combo, as long as you have it tuned correctly and NEVER have any detonation and you keep it reasonable you should be OK.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
MaddMartigan said:
It's a gamble but all power adders really are. Like any other combo, as long as you have it tuned correctly and NEVER have any detonation and you keep it reasonable you should be OK.
Do you concur with 1WLD BRD, that a turbo is a safer power adder?

Btw, I talked with the guys at HP performance, they have something like 17 cars they are doing installations on... booked until June! The guy I talked to also said that they put kits on the high compression vette motors, etc... and sounds like they don't mess around, they do the fuel system upgrade, dyno tune, etc. (I'd to have to toss the 24lb injector and 190lb fuel pump after just over a year of use.... curse my short term vision... :rolleyes: )
 

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Stoltz13 said:
Do you concur with 1WLD BRD, that a turbo is a safer power adder?

Btw, I talked with the guys at HP performance, they have something like 17 cars they are doing installations on... booked until June! The guy I talked to also said that they put kits on the high compression vette motors, etc... and sounds like they don't mess around, they do the fuel system upgrade, dyno tune, etc. (I'd to have to toss the 24lb injector and 190lb fuel pump after just over a year of use.... curse my short term vision... :rolleyes: )
What are your real goals here? The issues of a centrifugal SC can be and should be remedied by using the correct balancer. That often gets left out of the equation. You will need to buy an SFI balancer or you could have happen what happen to my buddy. He got lucky when his balancer snapped since he was only going about 15 miles an hour. He now has an SFI.

There is always the issue of doing it the "right way" and the "cheap way". Vortech offers you the ability to do it cheaper by providing the fuel management system that compensates for the fuel requirements by increasing fuel pressure under boost. With their added inline pump it works out. In this way you can have it both ways basically. That really isn't the best way but it does work. If they decide to modify the fuel system then be careful. Our fuel tanks don't lend themselves to major changes. If you are going beyond a 190lph pump then I have the feeling that the stock lines aren't going to cut it and that is an additional cost as well but may also introduce some logistical issues. Moving over to a fuel cell on an EFI car that you also want to drive on the street regularly isn't a simple matter.

Again, what are your real goals here. It would help us to understand how you intend on using the car as well as your HP goals and anything else you can tell us.

Oh yeah, if you get to even 500rwhp you will start breaking a lot of things in both the suspension and the driveline. Just something to consider.
 

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1WLD BRD said:
Out of all the power adders, turbocharging is the easiest on parts. "Spool up" time is generally somewhere between a positive displacement blower and a centrifical. (with a properly sized turbo, and other factors.)
This is not true, turbos can be brutal on engine parts, due to heat and detonation.

MaddMartigan said:
It's a gamble but all power adders really are. Like any other combo, as long as you have it tuned correctly and NEVER have any detonation and you keep it reasonable you should be OK.
Detonation WILL happen. It's just a matter of when and how much.

Look, the compression on my 4.6L is 9:1. I imagine the 5 liter is similar or even less. If it's that or lower, you can probably run 5-7psi safely on it, provided you add enough fuel and INTERCOOL IT. I know Bill thinks an intercooler is unnecessary, but with 10 years of turbocharging under my belt, I know how important intercooling is to a turbo engine. I don't even like these centrifugal supercharged setups when they have no IC. Compressed air makes ALOT of heat. Heat makes the air/fuel mixture more prone to detonation. Compressed air also makes it more prone to detonation due to air friction. So the cooler you can get it, the better.

WHen you add more fuel to compressed air, it's not just to take advantage of the larger air mass in the combustion chamber, it's because fuel spray also cools down the air temp charge. Cooling the air temp charge is VITAL to avoiding catastrophic detonation.

Like I said, with the right fuel amount and the right intercooler, you might be able to safely get away with 5-7psi stock. On a turbo with an internal wastegate, they usually come with external arms and vacuum canisters, sprung to a minimum of 7psi. SO you will have to lengthen the arm or something to reduce the tension on it to bring it down to a safer 5 psi.

Look, no offense, but if you aren't willing to do any work yourself, you really have no business with a turbo setup in the first place. Turbocharging requires alot of knowledge. If you aren't up to par to installing it, chances are you don't know enough about it either. Just take your time, learn some more about tuning, and then if you want to still, do it. I am myself thinking about it, but even I will seek outside assistance, and will make damn sure I have another running car in case I go BOOM.

In either case good luck.

For reference, you might call the following:

Turbonetics
Turbo City
Turbo Trix

All should be on the net or in national listings.
 

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What you're not getting is that I have 4 times the amount of pipe that most turbos do and it's all in the airstream. Plus my turbo runs 500° cooler than most underhood mounted turbos. The company that has the patents on the remote mounted turbos sees on average a 50% intercooler efficiency which as I'm sure you're aware is about the same as you usually get from a "standard" intercooler. The difference is that I don't have the same pressure drop that a traditional intercooler has.

Until I can get some datalogging software working right, I can't say for sure, but I've got more pipe on my car than any other installation they've done. My pipe is also in a better place than all of their others too. So I'd say air charge cooling is just not a problem yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Arro said:
Look, no offense, but if you aren't willing to do any work yourself, you really have no business with a turbo setup in the first place. Turbocharging requires alot of knowledge. If you aren't up to par to installing it, chances are you don't know enough about it either. Just take your time, learn some more about tuning, and then if you want to still, do it. I am myself thinking about it, but even I will seek outside assistance, and will make damn sure I have another running car in case I go BOOM.

In either case good luck.
Oh.... I have studied up on turbo theory and believe myself to be somewhat mechanically inclined... I'm just after a once and done way of getting a turbo installed.

Btw, HP performance supposably does all of the tuning and upgrades to the fuel system...
 

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Stoltz13 said:
Now with my wedding plans off :(... it seems likely I will be seeking out a turbo kit for my 5.0 Cougar. I am looking at what HP Performance has to offer, seems like they do good work... I see they are soon to offer a 3.8 SC kit... which makes it seem like a kit for a 5.0 Cougar would be simple, basically cobbling parts from the upcoming SC kit and the vast amount of 5.0 mustang inventory.

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Turbo Kits.htm

What do you guys think... since I haven't the time or ambition to build a kit myself, do you turbo experts think HP performance offers a good kit?
Stoltz13,
You may need to go over to SCCOA am PM David Neibert because his car is in line for a custom job at HP Performance as well. David has installed a custom V8 crate motor into his thunderbird and HP will be adding a sweeeeeeeet turbo application. In fact, his car is supposed to be next in line after mine. :eek: He can also likely help you out a lot. Neibert is one hell of a guy with gobs and gobs of information!!!! ;)
 

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David posts on here too. He has a nice SC and the 5.0 soon-to-be-turbo car.
 

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Yes I would reccomend HP and as far as I know they will be the only company offering a street turbo kit for 5.0 MN12s. BTW, I think the stock motor can handle about 400 rwhp without doing anything except the turbo system, bigger injectors, fuel pump and a dyno tune w/SCT chip.

I'm going for 800 rwhp with AOD and non locking converter (aprox 1067 fwhp) and built everything accordingly. Just need to decide on which turbo...we have it narrowed down to a T76-gts or a GT42 R 76. One supports 1100 HP and the other is good for 1200 HP...both look huge and it may come down to which one will fit under the hood easier.

David
 

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The kind of airflow needed to support 500hp will also require different internals, because I am sure the 5.0 engine is not 8:1 from the factory.

Turbochargers are not like headers and PI heads where you can just slap them on and turn up the b00st. Even with plenty of fuel, if your compression is too high it will blow up well before 500hp.
 
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