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Some people.

I guess we have different definitions of what a "bash" is.

To me a bash would be more like:

Oh **** there goes that ****ing Miller again, carrying on about his ***** *** 5.4 that doesn't make any ****ing power, what a ****ing *******. He's only been crying about his ****ing ***** *** intake manifold for what 5 years now, and the little ***** still won't ****ing give it up.

That is a bash. Big difference.
 

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:uppoint:

well put KD
 

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Actually, Sir Will if it went into overdrive then it would just be crusing steadily. It more like downshifted and locked the TC at WOT

haha :D
 

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kdanner said:
Some people.

I guess we have different definitions of what a "bash" is.
KD I really do not care about going down the track. All of the whining is coming from you because you have to have the fastest car and you have this big Texas ego. If you want a race then talk to someone who wants to go down the track.

You ask for proof, look at that article. 299.4 NA HP before your 4.6L. Instead you choose to bash & brag! What are you ashamed a 5.4L did it before you?
 

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Is this thread even about motors and swaps anymore casue it sounds like a lot of petty aruging and really answers no body's questions but hey whatever you guys want to talk about.

Will
 

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J.Miller said:
KD I really do not care about going down the track. All of the whining is coming from you because you have to have the fastest car and you have this big Texas ego. If you want a race then talk to someone who wants to go down the track.

You ask for proof, look at that article. 299.4 NA HP before your 4.6L. Instead you choose to bash & brag! What are you ashamed a 5.4L did it before you?

You're an idiot, yes that was a bash right there, the previous was not.

I don't have the fastest car, so I guess I am in trouble. You're still showing a heavier engine making less power than a lot of 4.6s make, and doing so over a very narrow range. Where's the timeslips from that thing by the way? None you say? Seems like a recourring theme amongst 5.4 owners. You think have proven something, but you haven't. You continue to show 5.4 engines that make less power than a 4.6.

So this remains the same:

"Hey kids! Want to do an engine swap that slows your car down? Install an NA 5.4 2V!"
 

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Well, just for my purposes, the reason I'm looking into building a 5.4 is because I plan to run the Mark in Auto-X, Open Track, and Open Road events. Now, maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but wouldn't I be better off with all the low end torque and higher end HP associated with a DOHC 5.4L? Back that up with a 6 speed and I bet I'll have a pretty solid combo for the track, and it should be pretty fun to play with on the street and open freeway. My car will be daily driveable, and play at the track on the weekends.
 

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PHRANQUY said:
Well, just for my purposes, the reason I'm looking into building a 5.4 is because I plan to run the Mark in Auto-X, Open Track, and Open Road events. Now, maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but wouldn't I be better off with all the low end torque and higher end HP associated with a DOHC 5.4L? Back that up with a 6 speed and I bet I'll have a pretty solid combo for the track, and it should be pretty fun to play with on the street and open freeway. My car will be daily driveable, and play at the track on the weekends.
I'd think the weight distribution would totally wreck your times. Look how quick Miatas run Auto-X, little can touch them, and they have no torque at all. I'd much rather see an all aluminum 4.6 for that purpose.
 

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I guess, but if the numbers I figured are correct, an all aluminum 5.4 should only come in at 50-80lbs more at most, and I can deal with that. So the car digs into the corners a little more while braking in corners, I'll make up for some of it with my suspension. In fact, I'll probably lighten the car with some of the other things I have planned. Not to mention, I already made it heavier by using an iron pumpkin out of an SC.

Also, in my experience (keep in mind most of my experience is with Chevy pushrod motors) that there is no replacement for displacement. Take a 350, throw a 400 crank in it, bore it .030 over, and typically you'll see 30hp and ~40 ft lb gain if you do it right (so about 300 HP and 400 f lbs on a stock Vortec motor). Top it off with some high flow heads (275-300CFM) and 11:1+ compression, your good for 550-600 FWHP.

So, please, someone correct me if I'm wrong, whats the best way to get displacement? I would think it's worth the little bit of extra weight of the 5.4 personally. Didn't Navigator's use an aluminum block, or am I wrong here?
 

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The only aluminum block for the 5.4 that I know of is the GT block(not the mustang) You can buy a whole GT engine, heads, blower, everything.... if you got $40,000.... It's your DOHC 5.4... dry sump oil.... lots of goodies. But it sure costs a lot.
 

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Yeah, I'm staying N/A, so that wouldn't be to good of a choice for me. Maybe I'll import a block from Australia. They seem to know what they're doin' with the cars down there.
 

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kdanner said:
Some people.

I guess we have different definitions of what a "bash" is.

To me a bash would be more like:

Oh **** there goes that ****ing Miller again, carrying on about his ***** *** 5.4 that doesn't make any ****ing power, what a ****ing *******. He's only been crying about his ****ing ***** *** intake manifold for what 5 years now, and the little ***** still won't ****ing give it up.

That is a bash. Big difference.
no your bashing is just put tactfully. That doesnt make it any less rude. I'm not arguing for either side I just found it funny that you whine about proof then found a way, yet again, to say it sucks anyway.
-Thomas
 

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96 GoldBird said:
And please explain how having 4v instead of 2v affects the piston speeds and ability to keep the rings seated on the cylinder walls?? How come you say to limit the 2v to 5500 and rev the 4v higher. You must just be considering the airflow without concern for the piston speeds and rings.-mike

Good point!....Well taken........keep it coming, only one way to learn.

But again.....Al Pipito did IT!

How, when, where :zdunno:

10.5 N/A 5.4l Tumble port DOHC! I'm sure he used the same components and names in his 5.4l as you would the 4.6l for upgrades. IE: rods, pistons, rings.
Tell me if he thought about piston speeds and ring seating?
I'm sure he did! Or he wouldn't be doing what he's doing. I still don't know my self, just speculating.

Also, you are trying to say, that if someone like me wants to boost up the performance and still be able to street drive the car(like most of us) it would be best to stay with a 4.6l 2v N/A? In a 4300lb car? (not including the weight of me)
And going on with this idea(4.6l N/A 4300lb car) it would be better than a 5.4l 2v N/A? I don't get it? Why do they use a 5.4l in the Lightning instead of the 4.6l. Even if it was'nt S/C, you are saying the 281ci. motor will do BETTER for the application than the 5.4l 330ci?

I've got the stock 4.6l with a lot of bolt-ons. Headers, exhaust, intake, 4.10 gear and no matter what I've bolted on, it keeps killing my bottom torque! I can drive normal on a rainy day, go into 2nd gear easy then get into it and from around 1200rpm's to 3800rpm's it will not spin a tire.....on wet pavement! But after 3800rpm's it breaks loose. The same goes for 3rd. Now if that's horse power kicking in....I don't want it. There is absolutly no torque what so ever in this 281ci motor to pull me through what I want. Even with a manual tranny w/ 11" clutch.

I think I may be able to pull off a 15.5 sec. 1/4 time with my car. I've raced a couple of ricers that have done lower 15sec. times w/street tires. When we raced, I didn't leave them and they didn't leave me.

5.4l is the ticket for me regardless of what you may speculate. It's a 4300lb car!
It needs a bigger engine!

Do'nt come off with this stroking out a 4.6l to 5.0 or 5.1. You gotta think about piston speed and ring seats! HA HA HA .......Just playing with you do'nt get mad :D

Piston speeds and ring seats? Wouldn't that have the same affect as reving a 4.6l into or more than 8000rpm's? I'm sure it does some how. Or, wait it's the SUPERMAN 4.6l.....IT CAN DO IT! J/K
 

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What does rainy weather have anything to do with torque. Hell, I can take a 4 speed geo metro and make the tires rip apart in the rain.

Are you towing a 40ft Donzi that you need a stroked out 4.6 (5.4)?? Its the valve shroud thats killing the two valves, not the stroke.
 

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PHRANQUY said:
I guess, but if the numbers I figured are correct, an all aluminum 5.4 should only come in at 50-80lbs more at most, and I can deal with that.

A 4.6 Iron block is a good 70lbs heavier than aluminum. The 5.4 is of course even more, then they added a bunch of material to the 5.4 for 03 picking up even more weight. Heavier crank, heavier rods, a wider intake so it is heavier too. I'd bet with as much alike external dress items as possible, you're going to pick up over 100lbs anyway.
 

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Why does an MN-12 5.4 vs. 4.6 debate always bring in people wanting to talk about Lightnings, Crown Vics and Mustangs?

If you want to go fast in a Crown Vic, take the motor out, sell the car and buy a TBird without an engine.

I don't think anyone here has any trouble breaking their tires loose, or running close to sub two second 60' times.
 

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The reason they put the 5.4 in the Lightning, is the same reason they put a diesel in a truck... it's a truck built to do "truck" things. Sure the Lightning is a particularly fast truck.. but it's a truck..

It's what KD uses to tow his bird, and will use to tow his mustang when it's done.. that's what trucks do...

Conversely.. why don't they put the 5.4 in Mustangs?? or Crown Vic's for that matter...

You don't have a clue what Pipito did to make his 5.4 go fast, what he considered what he didn't, what revs he pulls and how he does it.. how often he changes his internals and re-hones his cylinders... How much money he spent, or spends to keep his car in race tune do you?? or are you just making a lot of assumptions, and talking out your arse... Best to speak of your own experience or provide the data or info on what you are talking about.

Bottom line is there are a ton of guys here, regular guys, not sponsored racers, myself included, that have made more power and better ET's with a 4.6 than anyone on this site has been able to do with a 5.4.. excuses aside.. that's just the way it is, and is a fact.

When someone here can speak from their own experience and explain how they managed to get the same performance from a 5.4 than I and others have milked out of our 4.6's, then I will be happy to listen and alter my position..

Until then it is meaningless speculation to state it can be done by anyone here. If you have the resources and the technological know how of a sponsored racer than you can do what they can do.. otherwise you are just like the rest of us... Limited by the inherrent limitations of the engines we have to work with.

You can follow along and do what some of us have already proven can be done .. that is 300rwhp N/A and 12.5 second ET's, or you can do what the 5.4 guys here have done... considerably less HP and slower ET's..

Here's a quote from a 5.4 owner on this site:

Captjake said:
... you will be dissapointed in the horsepower, as there is no automotive application intake thats a really good . the displaced volume is 18% more and the heads are scaled to work with a 4.6, so thats a bottleneck....

... the few guys who have done the swap have not really gotten super power proportionate to the displacement
Jake
Not near enough gain to overcome the 80+ pound weight difference apparently...

-mike
 

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96 GoldBird said:
You don't have a clue what Pipito did to make his 5.4 go fast, what he considered what he didn't, what revs he pulls and how he does it.. how often he changes his internals and re-hones his cylinders... How much money he spent, or spends to keep his car in race tune do you??
-mike
Can you please enlighten us? I also have no idea what JL or KD do to make their car's go fast, they pull something close to 7k rpm.... Claims of little money spent... etc... I don't buy the money part but please... enlighten us.
 

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Has someone suggested this thread for a Tech Article yet? :rant: :thumbsd: :boom: :zdunno:
 
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