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Discussion Starter #1
I have heard some people on this forum talk about gutting the violin case but I've looked and don't see what can be gutted. Since its thin walled plastic. There doesn't seem to be anywhere you could take material off without putting a hole in it. I could be wrong so I wanted to ask people who way more than I.
 

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So you are complaining about performance mods not being worth it, and you still have the stock violin case? Don’t waste your time messing with the violin case, or the aluminum intake manifold, or the stock 94/95 heads, since nothing you do to them will have any positive affect. If you want more power on a budget, either swap a complete PI motor, or swap a PI top end onto your existing engine, or if you are up for some more re-wiring, a 4.6 DOHC motor will make even more power, for very cheap.
 

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So you are complaining about performance mods not being worth it, and you still have the stock violin case? Don’t waste your time messing with the violin case, or the aluminum intake manifold, or the stock 94/95 heads, since nothing you do to them will have any positive affect. If you want more power on a budget, either swap a complete PI motor, or swap a PI top end onto your existing engine, or if you are up for some more re-wiring, a 4.6 DOHC motor will make even more power, for very cheap.
OK, I'll bite.

You do realize that this guy isn't going to do any of this stuff? He said he already researched the site for doing these things and it's just not worth it.

Sorry, I'm replying to you because he never bothered to respond when I replied to him in his original thread.

I'm really curious about his age.
 

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There’s no real restriction in the violin case necessitating modification, it has a resonance chamber built into it so you might get more noise but to what benefit? Most just replace it with pipe for that same effect, but there’s no performance to be gained with that either, stock intake tubes and airboxes rarely hinder performance, even on high performance cars.
 

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I realize he is probably not going to do anything, I was just trying to point out that on the one hand he is complaining that he can’t make power as cheap as with a chevy, but on the other hand he clearly hasn’t tried, because he is still running the stock aluminum intake, and he also clearly hasn’t researched much at all, let alone to the extent he claims, because if he had, he would’ve known that there are no gains to be had messing with the violin case, and he wouldn’t have asked this stupid question. Maybe he hasn’t realized this yet, and this might inspire him to try some legitimate ways of making more power, but more likely this will just be there for posterity so when the next newbie comes along, they will know not to give any credence to his complaining.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
There’s no real restriction in the violin case necessitating modification, it has a resonance chamber built into it so you might get more noise but to what benefit? Most just replace it with pipe for that same effect, but there’s no performance to be gained with that either, stock intake tubes and airboxes rarely hinder performance, even on high performance cars.

Thanks for letting me know. I didn't think there was anything that could be done for it.
 

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So you are complaining about performance mods not being worth it, and you still have the stock violin case? Don’t waste your time messing with the violin case, or the aluminum intake manifold, or the stock 94/95 heads, since nothing you do to them will have any positive affect. If you want more power on a budget, either swap a complete PI motor, or swap a PI top end onto your existing engine, or if you are up for some more re-wiring, a 4.6 DOHC motor will make even more power, for very cheap.
Well let's see here. The junk yards in my area do not keep cars for parts for very long. After a handful of years they scrap them to clear space for newer vehicles. That being said, I haven't been able to find any used pi parts. I have found two complete pi engines but both have been blown and would need rebuilt. The cheapest machine shop I found wanted $4500 just for the rebuild. That doesn't include upgrading the transmission and putting engine back in the vehicle.

Since most people (All on this forum) have said they got about 40 hp out of the pi swap. It's just not worth thousands of dollars for it.

I actually just learned how to reply on this forum.
 

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My car is 90% built with junkyard parts, including the engine, and there isn’t a yard I go to that keeps cars for more than a few MONTHS or even WEEKS in one case, no yard trying to make a profit keeps inventory for years besides the odd classic car restoration businesses, in which case they wouldn’t have late model vehicles in inventory anyway.

Also, 4.6s never blow, so with all due respect I’m immediately left doubting that claim. But in that case there’s nothing stopping you from just sourcing the heads and intake manifold and swapping them onto your car, plus the odds and ends from a 96-97 Tbird that you surely can find from part outs on this forum. If your engine is good and all you can find for PI motors are high mile and sketchy this is the best route for you, and it’s not thousands of dollars. I spent 1/10th of $4500 on my headswap.

If you’re outsourcing all of the work though then no car is worth modifying for you, not a Tbird, not an Impala, not anything older than 8 years max if your benchmark is 500 horsepower. It’s all going to cost money, whether that means aluminum heads, intake, cam, valvetrain etc + labor you’d need to get an old LT1 to 500 or a blower and forged internals + labor to get a 4.6 there. There’s no easy button for power except for cash.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My car is 90% built with junkyard parts, including the engine, and there isn’t a yard I go to that keeps cars for more than a few MONTHS or even WEEKS in one case, no yard trying to make a profit keeps inventory for years besides the odd classic car restoration businesses, in which case they wouldn’t have late model vehicles in inventory anyway.



Also, 4.6s never blow, so with all due respect I’m immediately left doubting that claim. But in that case there’s nothing stopping you from just sourcing the heads and intake manifold and swapping them onto your car, plus the odds and ends from a 96-97 Tbird that you surely can find from part outs on this forum. If your engine is good and all you can find for PI motors are high mile and sketchy this is the best route for you, and it’s not thousands of dollars. I spent 1/10th of $4500 on my headswap.

If you’re outsourcing all of the work though then no car is worth modifying for you, not a Tbird, not an Impala, not anything older than 8 years max if your benchmark is 500 horsepower. It’s all going to cost money, whether that means aluminum heads, intake, cam, valvetrain etc + labor you’d need to get an old LT1 to 500 or a blower and forged internals + labor to get a 4.6 there. There’s no easy button for power except for cash.
Maybe they used the term "blown" as a generic term but I was told that either would need to be rebuilt.

My motor runs good but does burn oil a bit. I don't know if I would feel comfortable adding a 100hp to the 24 year old engine with almost 200,000 miles as is.

The day of my first post I was frustrated and I guess just vented some. Some people probably thought I was just trolling but i promise i wasn't. I honestly have wanted to add power to one of these since 1994. When I bought this one in Feb I was still under the impression I could just build up the stock engine.
 

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Well that was definitely a doozy of a first impression, but I think most of us around long enough have probably had the same frustrations, it just isn’t necessarily in our introductory post where there’s no context to our backgrounds and previous efforts. I’m game for moving on from that personally, but when you say in that introductory post that you’ve been searching here for 8 months it’s disheartening to find your first tech question one that’s been covered to death on this forum, and so trivial to actual performance it makes us all wonder how you think power is actually made in an engine(no offense intended if you do or don’t, everyone starts somewhere, and we simply do not know). But 8 months of lingering through the search engine will net you some real interesting and in depth stuff to form a plan and get ideas.


Anyway, your oil consumption is mostly coming from the valve seals in your heads. 94-95s are also more prone to gunked up oil control rings and consumption from those as well, but generally actual physical wear at 200k isn’t going to be much in one of these engines, or be unideal for upgrades as long as you keep oil in it. I wouldn’t hesitate to put PI heads on a running 200k block. As far as buildup goes, it really depends on your wants, you can get 500 horsepower with a blower build, and you can get about 300 naturally aspirated with the right parts for high RPM breathing. But you can also make that lower horsepower package as quick as something more powerful with everything else optimized, there are 12 second cars here that have only 290ishrwhp, well within the capability of running with or beating 5.0 Mustangs down a dragstrip. If you just want a fun street car don’t even worry about the numbers, PI swap, j-mod, higher stall converter and 3.73 gears and you’ll pretty much forget about hitting any numerical targets, it’ll just be a blast to drive.
 

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I have a question: Have you ever driven a car into deep water? And bent a rod?

It's a rush, but: We keep seeing the same problems... :)
 

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If you live in the continental United States, and you can’t find a good running PI 4.6 for under $1000, then you haven’t looked. As far as worrying about your oil consumption and high mileage, 4.6s are basically impervious to wear due to mileage. My uncle has a Grand Marquis with 450k miles, the valve covers have never been off, it doesn’t leak or burn a drop of oil, still makes just as much power, and gets 24mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well that was definitely a doozy of a first impression, but I think most of us around long enough have probably had the same frustrations, it just isn’t necessarily in our introductory post where there’s no context to our backgrounds and previous efforts. I’m game for moving on from that personally, but when you say in that introductory post that you’ve been searching here for 8 months it’s disheartening to find your first tech question one that’s been covered to death on this forum, and so trivial to actual performance it makes us all wonder how you think power is actually made in an engine(no offense intended if you do or don’t, everyone starts somewhere, and we simply do not know). But 8 months of lingering through the search engine will net you some real interesting and in depth stuff to form a plan and get ideas.


Anyway, your oil consumption is mostly coming from the valve seals in your heads. 94-95s are also more prone to gunked up oil control rings and consumption from those as well, but generally actual physical wear at 200k isn’t going to be much in one of these engines, or be unideal for upgrades as long as you keep oil in it. I wouldn’t hesitate to put PI heads on a running 200k block. As far as buildup goes, it really depends on your wants, you can get 500 horsepower with a blower build, and you can get about 300 naturally aspirated with the right parts for high RPM breathing. But you can also make that lower horsepower package as quick as something more powerful with everything else optimized, there are 12 second cars here that have only 290ishrwhp, well within the capability of running with or beating 5.0 Mustangs down a dragstrip. If you just want a fun street car don’t even worry about the numbers, PI swap, j-mod, higher stall converter and 3.73 gears and you’ll pretty much forget about hitting any numerical targets, it’ll just be a blast to drive.
Lol I thought I knew how engines build power but with the research I've done I've come to find out these 4.6 build power differently than old push rod engines. I took auto mechanics in high school and built a handful of engines. All carb fed 350s and my knowledge of the ford modular engine was lacking....and I didn't know it.

As far as the violin case goes. I've only heard "it sucks" over and over. Earlier today i seen an old post in the air induction section that had several people asking about the Richard M tube and someone said the violin case could be gutted and it would flow better than the aftermarket tube. I looked in mine but couldn't see anywhere that would be possible. Thought I'd ask just to find out.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If you live in the continental United States, and you can’t find a good running PI 4.6 for under $1000, then you haven’t looked. As far as worrying about your oil consumption and high mileage, 4.6s are basically impervious to wear due to mileage. My uncle has a Grand Marquis with 450k miles, the valve covers have never been off, it doesn’t leak or burn a drop of oil, still makes just as much power, and gets 24mpg.
I haven't really looked online cause I didn't want to pay for shipping of an engine or parts. I have been told that since mine is a 94 and a lot of extra parts are needed (I've seen the list) for a pi head and intake swap. A complete engine swap would be easier so if I do anything it will be that. Tho it is good to know my lower end is probably still in good condition.
 

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There isn’t a fundamental difference in building power between engines, but there is a 70 cubic inch deficit that needs to be overcome, just as you would if you were building a 283ci SBC instead of a 350 to the same power level. But even with those the intake tube isn’t a cork on power, if you want to make more power over stock with a 350 you need a cam, heads, intake and exhaust, and like 4.6s there are better factory ones for reasonable gains, and aftermarket parts and sometimes a mix of both based on budget. Chevy has way more options available though.

In your defense, I have seen those threads with those claims as well, but it’s not true. I wouldn’t necessarily want a violin case on a built engine, but it flows more than enough for the stock manifold, heads and camshafts. Getting rid of it for the Richard M tube was a looks and sound thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
There isn’t a fundamental difference in building power between engines, but there is a 70 cubic inch deficit that needs to be overcome, just as you would if you were building a 283ci SBC instead of a 350 to the same power level. But even with those the intake tube isn’t a cork on power, if you want to make more power over stock with a 350 you need a cam, heads, intake and exhaust, and like 4.6s there are better factory ones for reasonable gains, and aftermarket parts and sometimes a mix of both based on budget. Chevy has way more options available though.

In your defense, I have seen those threads with those claims as well, but it’s not true. I wouldn’t necessarily want a violin case on a built engine, but it flows more than enough for the stock manifold, heads and camshafts. Getting rid of it for the Richard M tube was a looks and sound thing.
My original plan was to just to upgrade my existing engine. Have the heads worked and better cams added but then found out none of that would help because of the intake. I was really wanting to keep it all thunderbird.

I have heard on here I could put the pi intake on my heads (after they were machined) but I don't have that much faith in RTV. Of course now thanks to this forum I have learned my driveshaft is held together with it. 😂😀😐😕😢
 

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RTV is fine as long as you follow the instructions exactly, the heads don’t need machining either. The 94-95 heads aren’t any good though, the valve springs limit lift so you cant use PI cams(and you’d be wasting money on aftermarket cams with just added duration) so new heads are a must. I don’t know how you expect to keep it all Thunderbird and build it, up. You can make it look like a stock 96 pretty easily with a stock Tbird plenum, PI intake manifold and 02 Mustang intake tube/MAF/airbox and nobody casually looking would know.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
RTV is fine as long as you follow the instructions exactly, the heads don’t need machining either. The 94-95 heads aren’t any good though, the valve springs limit lift so you cant use PI cams(and you’d be wasting money on aftermarket cams with just added duration) so new heads are a must. I don’t know how you expect to keep it all Thunderbird and build it, up. You can make it look like a stock 96 pretty easily with a stock Tbird plenum, PI intake manifold and 02 Mustang intake tube/MAF/airbox and nobody casually looking would know.
Keeping it all thunderbird was the original plan. That got shut down quickly. There are several cam companies who offer performance cams for the npi heads (comp being one) and I read in the book "Building the 4.6" what could be done with the npi heads at a machine shop to increase flow. But with the stock intake none of that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
There are two forms of npi heads, 91-95, which are junk, and 96+ which are pretty good
If I had known when I bought it. I would have still gotten a tbird but would have gotten a 96/97. That was one of the things I didn't know.

When I said the 4.6 and a 350 build power differently. I meant building the engine for power is different. All my Chevy friends told me to bore it and shave the heads. During my research I found those are not things that should be done to a 4.6 SOHC.
 
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