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Discussion Starter #1
I did the search, all that came up was that 96 and up have 65mm. If this is true on 94-95, will a FRPP 70mm T/B fit on my 95 with little or no modification? Thanks Eric
 

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BBK makes a 70mm TB specifically for the 94-95, but if I were you I'd spend my money on something more useful. For a relatively stock car a TB is not a worthwhile upgrade.
 

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94-95 birds had 70mm throttle bodies stock on the 4.6 to my knowledge; the FRPP will flow slightly more cfm than stock, but not enough to make a *huge* difference. Even BBK recommends using their 75mm unit for our model years, because there is very little performance gain otherwise.

The FRPP unit was designed for Mustangs primaily that used the 65mm stock for the same model year except 5.0; But Mercutio is right, if your car is anywhere near stock there is NO point. *Drum Roll* into Domino Effect >>> if you change one thing one the car, you will have to compensate for it and change another. A larger throttle body (BBK = $210) will *require* you to not only upgrade to a larger MAF (Brand-X = $150-300) but will also require an EEC Burn/ Chip Flash (another $250-350). If you don't do the latter two you will have VERY poor performance and about 1-3 HP more for your efforts (and only at WOT).

Also, since our year does not support the programming capabilites of the 96-97 EEC, our system must a "chip" plug in, available from SuperChips, Jet, SCT, Diablo or MN-12 Performance EEC-IV/V Tuner; the Hypertech and Superchips "power-programmer" or "micro-tuner" will not work for the 94-95s.

Not to mention all that extra incoming air will also need an exhaust upgrade to get it out just as fast, lol . . . but that's enough problems for now.
 

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OK, sorry but I forgot to notice you have a 90mm MAF already . . . and assume you've already flashed your chip for it, right?. . . which is fine, but I most defintiely recommend the 75mm unit then (such a large difference in MAF to TB is not recommended for performance). Large tapers like that often will change wind velocity going into the intake, usually slowing it down.

Also, with a 90mm LMAF, I would say that the 80mm throttle body is the best choice, and I know they make them for Mustangs and Super Coupe's . . . not sure about our model years though. . . anyway, my 2 pesos worth, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ouch, my head hurts! 65-70-65-70-65-70-mm what is it? I am not sure of what to do. All I know sence I made all these mods. I no longer have to slow down and let my neighbor with the camero cut in front of me on the freeway on ramp. He is 4 car lenghts behind me. You should have seen the first morning. His eyes bugged out. He told me that all the stuff I did wouldn't do a thing.
 

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94-97 Thunderbirds came with a 65mm TB. 94-95 cars have a vertically mounted TB while the 96-97s are horizontal. While there are little to no performance gains associated with going larger (80mm TB, you're kidding me right?) on a stock engine you will get better throttle response. Without forced induction, that air isn't going to get into the corked heads any quicker. There is also no need to change any programming or MAF when you upgrade a throttle body.

For what its worth, I've ran an 80mm LMAF with 65mm TB and stock plenum, 70mm TB and a stock plenum and a 75mm Roush TB with a honed out plenum and there really isn't that big of a difference. Nothing at all to write home about.
 

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The 70mm T/B is a waste of time on 94/95 T- birds ...Problem is you have to hog out a lotta metal to make the throttle blade fit into the gooseneck, then you look down the gooseneck , and funny thing.... It gets narrower! This due to a couple "gussets" (Indentures?)... that are in the sides of the gooseneck where it goes vertical, which are there to accommodate 'Big Tools' to remove the bolts holding the gooseneck ....Now, all that will give you an even bigger funnel mouth to the sane sized restriction you allways had... makes no sense....been there, done that
 

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RavenProject,

"94-95 birds had 70mm throttle bodies stock on the 4.6 to my knowledge"

WRONG!

ALL 1994-1997 4.6L T-Birds and Cougars came with 65mm throttle bodies from the factory. PERIOD. It's also plenty for those engines. Derek is right.

A-Train
 

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RavenProjecT said:
Also, since our year does not support the programming capabilites of the 96-97 EEC, our system must a "chip" plug in, available from SuperChips, Jet, SCT, Diablo or MN-12 Performance EEC-IV/V Tuner; the Hypertech and Superchips "power-programmer" or "micro-tuner" will not work for the 94-95s.
Are you sure about that?
 

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A-Train: so if the stock tb size is in fact 65mm, why is there so much urban myth about the 94-95 stock size being 70? I ask because the latter sentiment has been echoed to me several times by other bird owners, as well as a BBK rep in CA. I asked him about the 70 vs 75mm tb's for the 4.6 and what was recommended for an NA set up; according to the company recommendation for 94-95, 75mm was the way to go and the only available option for those years. He also said the 70mm tb only works on 96-up 4.6s. Is this a "company specific" recomendation then, and if so, why differ from year to year?

4point6r0x0rz: Yes, my friend has a Hypertech programmer for his mustang, it says it will work on 96-97 birds and so I tried it on my 94 just to check; scanner read "cannot read codes" or some BS to that effect, either way it didn't work. Not as sure about SC Micro Tuner, but can only assume.

Derek: I'm pretty sure it's recomended you program the EEC to know of any changes to MAF or Throttle body; I've never known anyone to swap them out successfully and have the car run optimally without it.
 

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RavenProjecT said:
A-Train: so if the stock tb size is in fact 65mm, why is there so much urban myth about the 94-95 stock size being 70? I ask because the latter sentiment has been echoed to me several times by other bird owners, as well as a BBK rep in CA. I asked him about the 70 vs 75mm tb's for the 4.6 and what was recommended for an NA set up; according to the company recommendation for 94-95, 75mm was the way to go and the only available option for those years. He also said the 70mm tb only works on 96-up 4.6s. Is this a "company specific" recomendation then, and if so, why differ from year to year?
Why is there such an urban myth? Because people post incorrect information, which really is silly when it is certainly not hard on a '94-95 car to take the violin case off and stick a ruler up to the bore of the TB. Bottom line is, for a mildly modified '94-95 4.6 with the stock intake manifold, you don't need anything bigger. Heck I am still running a 65 mm TB on a PI engine, and it is enough.
 

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Yes, the 94-97 throttle bodies are deffinetely 65mm. RavenProjecT, you need to stop assuming things, because thats how "urban myths" get passed around. You do not need a chip to run a larger throttle body. There is no USE in using a larger throttle body unless you open that bottle neck of an intake up, as well as the inlet elbow. They are WAY more of a restriction than that throttle body is.

Ther reason the mustang TB's do not work on the 94-95 is the linkage, the bracket is completely different. Most people do not realize this, even some big BBK Reps in Cali.

I'd have no trouble adapting a 70mm truck throttle body to the 94-95 inlet elbow and manifold. But is it worth it? Well it will be when I am done. With a lot of cutting and welding, it will be.

-Thomas
 

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RavenProjecT said:
4point6r0x0rz: Yes, my friend has a Hypertech programmer for his mustang, it says it will work on 96-97 birds and so I tried it on my 94 just to check; scanner read "cannot read codes" or some BS to that effect, either way it didn't work. Not as sure about SC Micro Tuner, but can only assume.
Well, the reason I asked you to clarify is because I asked this question before in here. Certain posters that I consider experts say that the 1995 T'bird EEC is flashable because it conforms to OBD-II specs. And from all I've read since I registered here, SCT tuning is far superior to other competitors like Hypertech. The people behind the programming know a lot about the 4.6L mod motor and the cars they come with. The SuperChipsCustom.com Web site also says that the flasher is available for the '94-'95 mn-12. '95 Mustangs, OTOH? That might be a different story.
 

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MAF yes, this is a no brainer and not any way related to the original post I commented on. I believe you mentioned it was "required" to program the EEC for a throttle body change. You don't.


RavenProjecT said:
Derek: I'm pretty sure it's recomended you program the EEC to know of any changes to MAF or Throttle body; I've never known anyone to swap them out successfully and have the car run optimally without it.
 

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4point6r0x0rz said:
The people behind the programming know a lot about the 4.6L mod motor and the cars they come with. The SuperChipsCustom.com Web site also says that the flasher is available for the '94-'95 mn-12. '95 Mustangs, OTOH? That might be a different story.
All I can tell you is that 94-95 MN12 EEC is partial OBD II. They came out with preliminary versions of OBD II. 1996-97 MN12's came with real OBD II.

Trust me when I tell you that OBD II is much much much more difficult to program. You are better off with pre 1995.
 
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