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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
9/29/2016 1206PST
***Update****
Compression is 170 at the high, 135 at the low, only two in the low and they aren't near each other.

Shop wants to charge me, now get this, 305 for plugs and wires. That's just to TRY to get it started, (which it ran reliably before I moved the wiring harness. )
Not happening.

So.. we have spark, we have compression.

**** Dammit..... I think I just figured out my own culprit. How do you do the bare added idiot Imogene?*****


This is why I am here.
The short story- Mechanic says I've got a blown head gasket.
regardless what I think and know, I have options aq small window to work.
95 4.6 58k on the odo when I bought here, probably 60 k now.
these are my options. ditch the cOUG... no
replace the whole engine with

95 Lincoln 4.6 complete. high ,miles or

replace the head gasket and keep what I have with the full aluminum intake, with the plenum all the way a the rear of the engine or

replace the heads with 2v P.I. "B" heads?? and I guess I 'd need a new intake as well, or...

replace the engine with an 08 P71 4.6 complete.

these are my within 7 day options. OR do i just pick up a new daily driver and build me cat nice a nd slow?
what is your opinions?
 

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I can almost guarantee the head gaskets are just fine, failure is extremely rare on 4.6s. If there's oil in coolant it's probably the oil filter adapter gasket, or possibly failure of the trans cooler in the radiator

Do your 7 day options take into account sourcing the various parts to convert the car over to 96+ spec (fuel lines, fuel rails, EGR tube, intake tube, vacuum lines, wiring harness modification, ect.) for the latter two options?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
re Matt

Matt, I have already sourced the 08 P71 engine, I have sourced the PI Heads. I have sourced the 95 Lincoln motor and trans option. But it seems to me, the consensus is explorer swap.
but I don't have explorer swap money, and these guys.. yea, I think it might snap the mechanics brain stem He don't listen too good.

Remember , I gave the brief story, While the intake manifold was off, I had the car towed... and not all the fluid was drained apparently. So I can see where SOME water /coolant moved from water jacket to ..intake jacket, but it's not starting.. they got it cranking, but not started, which I attribute to that awesome wiring harness, wired for every f8king option, and tied down every 6inches..

I';ve got the EGR disconnected as well as one of the O2 sensors id disconnected, so if she lights, it won't be pretty initially.

hey,,, , for now, I;m using existing gear, but I've got an99 wiring harness and fuel rail with regulators and coil pods from a P71... would that boost any performance? no?
I know I miswired the plug wires thats why she wasn't starting.

ok, feed back, please..
I"ve got two auctions Friday and Saturday full of explrers, but only 2 with 4.6s.

what about a Lincoln? 4.6 vs my 4.6?
 

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Matt, I have already sourced the 08 P71 engine, I have sourced the PI Heads. I have sourced the 95 Lincoln motor and trans option. But it seems to me, the consensus is explorer swap.
but I don't have explorer swap money, and these guys.. yea, I think it might snap the mechanics brain stem He don't listen too good.

Remember , I gave the brief story, While the intake manifold was off, I had the car towed... and not all the fluid was drained apparently. So I can see where SOME water /coolant moved from water jacket to ..intake jacket, but it's not starting.. they got it cranking, but not started, which I attribute to that awesome wiring harness, wired for every f8king option, and tied down every 6inches..

I';ve got the EGR disconnected as well as one of the O2 sensors id disconnected, so if she lights, it won't be pretty initially.

hey,,, , for now, I;m using existing gear, but I've got an99 wiring harness and fuel rail with regulators and coil pods from a P71... would that boost any performance? no?
I know I miswired the plug wires thats why she wasn't starting.

ok, feed back, please..
I"ve got two auctions Friday and Saturday full of explrers, but only 2 with 4.6s.

what about a Lincoln? 4.6 vs my 4.6?
Depends on the Lincoln. If it's a Town Car, it's the same iron block 2v as was in your car originally. All the pre-02 cars are NPI, all the 02 up cars are PI heads. The 08 P71 already has PI Heads/cams/intake on it, mechanically it's identical to every other PI motor such as the Mustang, it's the tune and the exhaust that limits power. Same cams, same intake, etc. You will need 96/97 Thunderbird Fuel rails, or similar generation Town car/Crown Vic/Gran Marquis (97-01 I think) fuel rails to run the PI engine in your 95. (94/95 fuel rails just aren't compatible)

CarPart - Replacement Auto Parts, search for 2002-2005 Explorer motors. I found mine for $300, but $600 is the average price.
The primary advantage to the Explorer is the aluminum block.

If you were to get a 93-98 Lincoln Mark VIII motor, they're the Teksid aluminum block like the Mustang Cobras, BUT not a forged rotating assembly so keep the revs below 6500 (below 5000 if you run the stock Torque converter). If you go with one of them, you'll need to keep the 4V heads because if you put the 2v heads on, the pistons have less dish, you'll get 11.3 or so compression, but will have a high degree of potential for PTV clearance issues (piston to valve) so you'd need to notch the pistons for clearance.

No matter what, if you put in PI heads or a PI engine, you NEED a tune or it'll run poorly.
 

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The only thing forged in NA Cobras is the crank, rods and pistons are exactly the same.
Gotcha. Wasn't aware of that.

I just keep seeing everyone assume that since the Mark VIII has a Teksid block, that it has all the same components as the Cobra.

One other thing I forgot to mention, DO NOT use the 99-02 Continental motor. Yes it's a Teksid aluminum block, yes it has the later "C" style heads with an adapter plate to run the B intake, but it won't bolt up to a RWD transmission. It's a different casting, and doesn't have the holes.
 

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Matt, I have already sourced the 08 P71 engine,

Remember , I gave the brief story, While the intake manifold was off, I had the car towed... and not all the fluid was drained apparently. So I can see where SOME water /coolant moved from water jacket to ..intake jacket, but it's not starting.. they got it cranking, but not started, which I attribute to that awesome wiring harness, wired for every f8king option, and tied down every 6inches..
Were you in the middle of a PI swap when you had it towed or what?

With having to pay a mechanic, I believe I would have him just change the head gasket. Ideally, if the car has a lot of miles, replacing the valve stem seals on both heads, and cleaning the EGR tube would be ideal while he is in there. The 94-95 motors burn oil which clogs up that EGR tube eventually.

All the differences in the various years of 4.6's can be cumbersome - especially if you are paying for labor. Staying with the same motor & intake system gives you the best chance of the car running well when it's done. It might be different if you had the time to do a swap, and did the work yourself.

Keep in mind, the '08 P71 engine is drive by wire. They changed over in '05.

Al
 

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What on earth is an intake jacket? The Ports? That still wouldn't blow a head gasket or show blown head gasket like symptoms, no oil circulates through the intake tract except for PCV vapors. If measurable amounts of coolant got in the cylinders from there and was cranked over that's going to bend a connecting rod first. What prompted this intake manifold removal + tow exactly at 58k miles? You say it was your daily driver and only now in this state of limbo are you considering building it, it's difficult to give input with murky details.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What had happened was...

First, I thank you for taking time to involve yourself in my dilemma. Too often too many do not recognize the full value of another's gift of time knowledge and comraderie.
Enough gilding.
Daily driver. Got her from a lien sale last year. Issues?
Bad suspension rubber, ball joints.
Coolant leak, from top rear hose connection to intake manifold.
That's it. Topping off coolant once a week.
Performance sucked compared to my built T-bird, that I didn't build, so... First mod...
Removed air restrictor from airbox, that opened it up some. But still no issues.
Labor day.. I'm actually working, taking lunch in the shade of a concrete parking lot overhang. Nothing around for 100 feet. I run the engine to enjoy the cold A/C... About 15 min.. I smell that...smell. Just a little, that hot water,. Chemical.. I face out the window to catch a ride of white smoke float by.
I panic a little bound out to check my exhaust.. yea, it's a little whiter than supposed to be. Like I usually do NOT. See my exhaust. I just it out of there, the 5 miles home, I nurse it, last mile is uphill, off ramp is uphill, performance lag lag lag,. I can smell it. I get off the freeway, flip a ***** to a side street, check the temp gauge, high side of middle. Hmm. I sh.ut it off.
There. I chose to replace the intake manifold gasket from articles posted here. Glad I did, because there was a breach. I don't have photos my phone.. um ..."broke".
When I couldn't find ANY how to or walk thru for my engine with its unique all aluminum intake manifold.

That's how it began. After I finished the job, she wouldn't crank. Check the battery, battery fine, almost new. 620 CCA. Check starter, starter good. Check relay. Delay good. Check ignition switch, ignition switch f'd up from lien sale, replaced ignition cylinder, not crank. dim lights. I got to move the dar, my friend is now a jerk, toy cat to mechanic. He's an idiot. Told him to change oil, filter and 5 qts in front seat.
He says battery was dead, it cranks now.no start. No compression in any cylinders
 

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First, I thank you for taking time to involve yourself in my dilemma. Too often too many do not recognize the full value of another's gift of time knowledge and comraderie.
Enough gilding.
Daily driver. Got her from a lien sale last year. Issues?
Bad suspension rubber, ball joints.
Coolant leak, from top rear hose connection to intake manifold.
That's it. Topping off coolant once a week.
Performance sucked compared to my built T-bird, that I didn't build, so... First mod...
Removed air restrictor from airbox, that opened it up some. But still no issues.
Labor day.. I'm actually working, taking lunch in the shade of a concrete parking lot overhang. Nothing around for 100 feet. I run the engine to enjoy the cold A/C... About 15 min.. I smell that...smell. Just a little, that hot water,. Chemical.. I face out the window to catch a ride of white smoke float by.
I panic a little bound out to check my exhaust.. yea, it's a little whiter than supposed to be. Like I usually do NOT. See my exhaust. I just it out of there, the 5 miles home, I nurse it, last mile is uphill, off ramp is uphill, performance lag lag lag,. I can smell it. I get off the freeway, flip a ***** to a side street, check the temp gauge, high side of middle. Hmm. I sh.ut it off.
There. I chose to replace the intake manifold gasket from articles posted here. Glad I did, because there was a breach. I don't have photos my phone.. um ..."broke".
When I couldn't find ANY how to or walk thru for my engine with its unique all aluminum intake manifold.

That's how it began. After I finished the job, she wouldn't crank. Check the battery, battery fine, almost new. 620 CCA. Check starter, starter good. Check relay. Delay good. Check ignition switch, ignition switch f'd up from lien sale, replaced ignition cylinder, not crank. dim lights. I got to move the dar, my friend is now a jerk, toy cat to mechanic. He's an idiot. Told him to change oil, filter and 5 qts in front seat.
He says battery was dead, it cranks now.no start. No compression in any cylinders
Have you overheated the car at all? If not, I'd just replace the head gaskets and call it done. It'll take a solid weekend to do it, but it's not so bad. Much easier to do with the engine out of the car, but not necessary.

Remove the fan, remove the hood, remove the wiper cowl and wiper equipment. Remove the intake manifold and all the associated parts, remove the AC compressor, the power steering pump (you can leave them under hood, just get them out of the way) the harmonic balancer, and the front cover.

MARK THE TIMING CHAINS, that way you can just line up the dots.

Unbolt the exhaust from the manifold outlets, pull the heads, clean them, check for flatness, clean the mating surfaces, put the new gaskets in (FRPP Head Changing kit is worth the money, has all the gaskets but intake manifold and cam cover gaskets and has the replacement bolts) Lube the new bolts LIGHTLY with 30w oil, tighten in proper sequence to 28-31lb/ft, add 90 degrees, loosen one full turn, tighten to 28-31lb ft, add 90 degrees, add another 90 degrees, and put everything back on.

While the front cover is off, replace the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors while it's easy to reach.
 

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First, I thank you for taking time to involve yourself in my dilemma. Too often too many do not recognize the full value of another's gift of time knowledge and comraderie.
Enough gilding.
Daily driver. Got her from a lien sale last year. Issues?
Bad suspension rubber, ball joints.
Coolant leak, from top rear hose connection to intake manifold.
That's it. Topping off coolant once a week.
Performance sucked compared to my built T-bird, that I didn't build, so... First mod...
Removed air restrictor from airbox, that opened it up some. But still no issues.
Labor day.. I'm actually working, taking lunch in the shade of a concrete parking lot overhang. Nothing around for 100 feet. I run the engine to enjoy the cold A/C... About 15 min.. I smell that...smell. Just a little, that hot water,. Chemical.. I face out the window to catch a ride of white smoke float by.
I panic a little bound out to check my exhaust.. yea, it's a little whiter than supposed to be. Like I usually do NOT. See my exhaust. I just it out of there, the 5 miles home, I nurse it, last mile is uphill, off ramp is uphill, performance lag lag lag,. I can smell it. I get off the freeway, flip a ***** to a side street, check the temp gauge, high side of middle. Hmm. I sh.ut it off.
There. I chose to replace the intake manifold gasket from articles posted here. Glad I did, because there was a breach. I don't have photos my phone.. um ..."broke".
When I couldn't find ANY how to or walk thru for my engine with its unique all aluminum intake manifold.

That's how it began. After I finished the job, she wouldn't crank. Check the battery, battery fine, almost new. 620 CCA. Check starter, starter good. Check relay. Delay good. Check ignition switch, ignition switch f'd up from lien sale, replaced ignition cylinder, not crank. dim lights. I got to move the dar, my friend is now a jerk, toy cat to mechanic. He's an idiot. Told him to change oil, filter and 5 qts in front seat.
He says battery was dead, it cranks now.no start. No compression in any cylinders
No compression in any cylinder. Something is up.

From what you've said you could have messed up the intake install but that would not kill all cylinders. And a blown head gasket would not cause it either, in all cylinders.

You do need to find another mechanic.

And I'll be honest. As I have read all of this, it's sounds like a big mess that I am really trying to get my head around. Done this done that. Some of this and some of that.
If I was closer I would come take a look at it and give you some direction.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Matt, I have already sourced the 08 P71 engine, I have sourced the PI Heads. I have sourced the 95 Lincoln motor and trans option. But it seems to me, the consensus is explorer swap.
but I don't have explorer swap money, and these guys.. yea, I think it might snap the mechanics brain stem He don't listen too good.

Remember , I gave the brief story, While the intake manifold was off, Ihad the car towed... and not all the fluid was drained apparently. So I can see where SOME water /coolant moved from water jacket to ..intake jacket, but it's not starting.. they got it cranking, but not started, which I attribute to that awesome wiring harness tied down every 6 inches..

I've got the EGR disconnected as well as one of the O2 sensors id disconnected, so if she lights, it won't be pretty ini`tially.

hey,,, , for now, I;m using existing gear, but I've got a 99 wiring harness and fuel rail with regulators and coil pods from a P71... would that boost any performance? no?
I know I mis wired the plug wires thats why she wasn't starting.

ok, feed back, please..
I"ve got two auctions Friday and Saturday full of explorers, but only 2 with 4.6s.

what about a Lincoln? 4.6 vs my 4.6?

Another question... if I swap motors, can I pull the ECM ( ?) from the donor car and replace the one in my 95? You guys talk about tunes tunes tunes, why not just grab the Host ECM too?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am considering building it. I do not have a place to work on it, looking for a garage to rent. From what I'm getting in responses, I may just tow it to an alternate mechanic,someone I trust, have him check it out and go from there.If it is a head gasket, and I can get a pair of straight P.I. Heads on the cheap, since I would have to pull the heads anyhow, why wouldn't I just swap the heads. From what I'm reading, I'll need the PI Intake manifold as well. that'll cost me more than the heads.
 

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Matt, I have already sourced the 08 P71 engine, I have sourced the PI Heads. I have sourced the 95 Lincoln motor and trans option. But it seems to me, the consensus is explorer swap.
but I don't have explorer swap money, and these guys.. yea, I think it might snap the mechanics brain stem He don't listen too good.
All Crown Vic motors after 2002 are already PI. You don't need another set of heads. The Lincoln motor with PI heads (if it's out of a Town Car) will give you 10.3:1 compression, which will give you around 270-280hp at the crank with a good tune. The 95 Lincoln motor probably doesn't have the right fuel rails for a PI Swap though.
Remember , I gave the brief story, While the intake manifold was off, Ihad the car towed... and not all the fluid was drained apparently. So I can see where SOME water /coolant moved from water jacket to ..intake jacket, but it's not starting.. they got it cranking, but not started, which I attribute to that awesome wiring harness tied down every 6 inches..
What is an "intake jacket"? Is there water in the intake manifold? Turn it upside down, it'll run out. No biggie.
I've got the EGR disconnected as well as one of the O2 sensors id disconnected, so if she lights, it won't be pretty ini`tially.

hey,,, , for now, I;m using existing gear, but I've got a 99 wiring harness and fuel rail with regulators and coil pods from a P71... would that boost any performance? no?
Won't work at all. Use your wiring harness. Remember, the P71 is the exact same engine as the 99-04 Mustang, the 2002-2005 Explorer (except Iron block in CV vs. Aluminum for the Explorer), the 2002-end of life Crown Vic, Gran Marquis, Town Car. ALL PI 4.6V8 have the same heads, cams, etc. Minor variations in intake manifold, exhaust routing, and ECM Tune is what makes for the different power levels between them. The P71 got 10hp more than the civilian Crown Vic thanks to a dual exhaust. They also had either 3.27 or 3.55 gearing, making for quicker acceleration. Other than that, motors are identical.
I know I mis wired the plug wires thats why she wasn't starting.

ok, feed back, please..
I"ve got two auctions Friday and Saturday full of explorers, but only 2 with 4.6s.

what about a Lincoln? 4.6 vs my 4.6?
As I said before, depends on what Lincoln it came out of. If it is a town car, it's identical to your existing motor. If it's out of a Mark VIII, it's DOHC, and a definite step up (280hp crank and aluminum Teksid block). If it's out of a Continental, it's useless as it won't mate to your transmission.
Another question... if I swap motors, can I pull the ECM ( ?) from the donor car and replace the one in my 95? You guys talk about tunes tunes tunes, why not just grab the Host ECM too?
Because the host ECM has different parameters than what your car has. Some cars had knock sensors (ours don't), some cars had extra temp sensors, some cars had other variables that we just don't have. If it was as simple as swapping in an Explorer or Mustang ECU, we'd all be doing it. If you're going through all the trouble of an engine swap, why skimp out on $500 ($400 for Xcal, $100 for tune)and have it run like crap? Do it right or don't do it.

You can always get an XCal on Ebay for $200 or so. New they're $400. Make sure it's unlocked before buying, or then you need to spend an additional $150 to unlock it. A tune is only $100 or so, and well worth it.

I'm putting a 2003 Explorer motor in my car right now. I have ported heads, Stage 2 cams, and I spent the money on an Xcal and am getting a tune sent to me. You don't have to get it dyno tuned, a mail order tune will get you running properly and at least 95% of total power. A dyno tune will squeeze the last few out, but isn't strictly necessary.
Check out LaSota Racing Ford Tuning & Training and see how much his tunes cost. He literally wrote the book on it, and he's good at it. He'll have you running till you want to go to a dyno.
 

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What exactly does "sourced" mean? You have them? Or you know where you can get them?

I can almost guarantee headgaskets are fine, in the event you compressed water by way of having the car towed with the intake manifold removed... for some reason... A connecting rod or two may be bent from hydrolock but that won't kill compression in all 8 cylinders, nor blow a head gasket. Whatever problem is currently causing it to not run now is most definitely going to be present when you unnecessarily swap a different engine in it's place, but complicating things even further. You're getting way ahead of yourself and by the sounds of things you may be in over your head.

I'm not even going to indulge on engine choice here until I have a clear non-anecdotal explanation, preferably accompanied by pictures, explaining and showing the state of the car NOW.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
the engine has roughly 60k on it, maybe 65k. the P.I. heads i would put on, i would attempt to keep low mile as possible.
the prices at car-part are pretty crazy. two weeks ago i saw two FN10S running, working cars sell at auction for under 500 combined! i mean one donor lincoln would be all i need, right? ALuminum block 32 valve, aluminum drive shaft, 3.27 gears, IRS... plus hte interiors are pretty sweet. HOw do I hot rod a Lincoln?
 

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the engine has roughly 60k on it, maybe 65k. the P.I. heads i would put on, i would attempt to keep low mile as possible.
the prices at car-part are pretty crazy. two weeks ago i saw two FN10S running, working cars sell at auction for under 500 combined! i mean one donor lincoln would be all i need, right? ALuminum block 32 valve, aluminum drive shaft, 3.27 gears, IRS... plus hte interiors are pretty sweet. HOw do I hot rod a Lincoln?
Headers, "C" heads and intake instead of the "B" heads and intake, under drive pulleys, a good tune, hotter cams.

Pretty much the same as hot rodding a Thunderbird/Cougar, just with more valves.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I appreciate your candor.
I've got it towed to a reputable mechanic last night. I will know more this week.

When I picked it up last night, I checked the oil dipstick and found no traces of coolant ( I had just filled the system after replacing the intake manifold gasket.)

Cranked the engine. There's no knocking.
The cranking does sound fast, rpm.
Won't start. Not one cylinder lighting off.
I'm thinking the problem is still in the wiring harness.
I don't think it's a head gasket issue. At least not yet.
I don't think it's getting fuel.
I'll wait for it to cool down a bit and check my harness once again before I let the pros at it.
Good thing I have s spare complete wiring harness, yes?
 

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Keep in mind, along with the PI heads and intake, you would need a 96-97 style throttle body and plenum, and different fuel rails from what you have IIRC. Plus the harness would need modified as needed to match up with the 96-97 stuff.

The 94-95 front facing style throttle body does not match up with any of the PI stuff.

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #20
so,... a 93-98 Lincoln 4.6 has an aluminum NPI block.
then, if i pull heads from, say an 04 continental, 32 valve that are C heads and mated them to the block, that would be a good performance pairing?
 
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