TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I've read some posts here about maybe swapping out engines and putting a carb etc. on them.

My question is (and I'm just wondering here so pls. be gentle with responses)

I see lots of our yr birds and cats with explorer motors and blowers etc, with my own research looks like to get into the 12's your looking at around 20k invested in motor, trans, and rear alone. ( I may be wrong on those numbers, again pls be gentle)

I am wondering if an old school, built up 302 putting out around 400hp which you can get pretty much complete (obviously exhaust, water pump and accessories would be extra) for around 5k delivered to your door would be a more viable option. Now I know that you would have to mess with the computer to still run our trannies or switch to a manual. I'm sure there would be some mods needed to be done to the motor mounts etc. But my main question is do you guys think it's a viable idea to chase after or keep chasing the computer age. (sorry I'm a bit old school and like thinking outside the norm) See I love my birds looks but it seems like unless heavily modified the 4.6 sohc is just a bit (no offense here) but weak.

If anyone has any ideas pls feel free to let me know, Thanks and yes I'm a newb to this generation T-bird. The closest I've owned was a 85 with a 1969 302 in it with a 5 spd and 373's - I really loved that bird but the engine was done by the previous owner and it went boom, I was too young and stupid to be patient and get another 302 to drop in there.

I want to be smarter with this bird and do it so it makes me happy and it can run on the track and street while looking good.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this crazy idea. :cbones:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
Well, more importantly.....what do you want to do?

Either route will require a good investment of research, time, research, money, and research. You'll need to figure out what your goals are, and then what it will realistically take to achieve those goals. It's always going to be a sum of many parts....no good dropping a motor in that the rest of the drivetrain or chassis can't handle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Oh I definately understand making the drive train up to snuff with the motor, but that is a constant. Since I will have to do that with any amount of mods that will up the HP and TQ by any significant amount.

I am and always have been more of an old school boy, but if more and more ppl tell me that it's better or more cost effective or possibly both to stick with my motor or one out of lets say an Explorer like TM's and a few others. Than I will take that into account as well. Like I said I'm new to this generation bird and I am looking for the best route to take in the future.

Thanks for the reply :D
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,902 Posts
It rather depends on what you want to do.

The mod motor breaths at high RPMs better than most of the old-school motors do, because of the better design. OTOH, as a truck motor, they somewhat lack due to not being quite as torquey at the low end.

OTOH, the 302 can be set up to haul a load straight up Pike's Peak, but it peters out at a lower speed than the mod motors do.

You can get around that - but then, you're back into the same price ballpark!

My suggestion, since you've got a 1995, is to look for a DOHC and work on that.

Ideally, find a rear-ended Mark VIII that can be driving into the garage for a donor - and use it for the parts to make that TBird a right real screamer :diablo:

RwP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the opinion, I'm not doing anything - anytime soon.

But when I do I will be taking all advice - and going from there.

Keep the advice coming guys - Pls and thanks!!!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,902 Posts
DO notice that my car (Ruby Jean, the 1991 Cougar) is 5.0HO based - but it's a stocker.

If I DO anything it'll be a careful rebuild and a tune. Or just a tune.

RwP
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,617 Posts
To put a 5.0 in start with a 3.8 or 5.0 car but realize the engine alone won't be it on the 95. The transmission, driveshaft and all the accessories will easily put you to a $15000 budget. I think you could keep the mod motor and do it for less. I have about $2500 invested in my 97 engine and all getting some good deals and trading a bit to get there. It went 14.06 at the shootout needing a tune, it was fouling the plugs below wot. I am confident the car has mid to low 13's in it and am hoping for high 12's. Once I put nitrous on it it should be easily 12's possibly 11's. The motor is far from everything needed to make the car run 12's you need a transmission that can handle it with a converter built for it, wheels,driveshaft,etc... Bracing is also important. These cars are large and heavy a 400hp 302 crate motor will not get 12's if it would everyone would have done it.
Alan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Oh I definately understand making the drive train up to snuff with the motor, but that is a constant. Since I will have to do that with any amount of mods that will up the HP and TQ by any significant amount.
Thanks for the input though DD I do appreciate it. The more the better imo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
OK, well I've done some more research and found myself to be really a NEWB for sure. So I'm sorry for the thread and cluttering up the board when the answer was actually just a couple of days of research away.

What I found : 405 HP and 393 FT LBS.
How it was done:

Heads - Either go with PI heads with a stage II port with Beehive valve springs or you can get Trick Flow TFS-51900002-M44 ($2,200) from Summit that come with the Beehives installed already and flow about the same as the ported ones in the article.

Intake - PI intake - I found one at Summit for $200.00 (I'm sure with research can get cheaper as with all these parts) Lower and the upper at around $270.00 w/ a 75mm TB included

Cams - Comp Cam part # XE270AH (2) - @ $600.00 for the pair

That combo with nothing else produced the aforementioned numbers at the Flywheel on a 118k stock 97' 4.6 SOHC Block

Article can be found at - http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/0909st_increasing_power_output_4_6l_modular_ford_motor/heads.html

So with all the other "constant" mods ie: tranny, TC, bracing, Gears etc. that is not a bad deal to mod up the motor without going crazy imo - then you can rebuild the bottom end and put a blower and maybe some funny juice on it and it will be lower than I initially thought by quite a bit.

Thanks again guys sorry for being a newb, but that's what these forums are for right? To help newbs like me lol
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,493 Posts
If your goal is 12s, get an SVO blower. There are a bunch of guys on here running low 12s or even 11s with the explorer motor and SVO blower combo, and that requires way less investment than converting to a SBF. Plus, a carb will never be as efficient or reliable as EFI. If you want it to last, and be reliable, and run the same no matter what the temperature outside, you need to keep the EFI. So if you wanted to go the small block route, you would also need the ECM and complete wiring harness from a 5.0 car. My reccomendation would be to stick with the 4.6 and see how far you can go with it. In my opinion, the small block route doesn't get cheaper until you get into the 500-600hp range.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,902 Posts
95LX4.6 - Find an Explorer that was tailended, or better, a Mark VIII that was tailended, and is totalled, but can be driven into your garage, as a donor.

Pull the motor from either, and (if possible!) the tranny from the Mark.

That way, you can rebuild it as you have cash available. And keeping the suspension in tip top shape on the TBird (a VERY important part!)

We have some really smart people here who are tip top in the modular field, so we have the resources.

Do be prepared - no matter WHICH motor you go with, it'll cost you.

Now, if you really, REALLY want a 5.0 - the Coyote motor and ECU wiring harness is under $8K IIRC. I bet the total conversion would be under $15K (and that includes the tranny and all the rewiring necessary!). Considering they're doing 800+HP on the Coyote already ... albeit not on the crate motor fresh out of the crate!

RwP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well, I do appreciate all the input as always guys. I talked to Robert P. today at the track and him, Darren, and Ron pretty much have me going in the right direction.

Which will be a PI motor (but I still would like to run the Trick Flow heads) and some aggressive cams - with a blower etc etc.

I will be doing the motor last I want to get a tune on it and that's about it for now for the motor.

The trans will need a DD converter and a Build/Jmod by Robert P.

The rear will need a 373 trac loc

The suspension will be upgraded

Then I will start on the motor - I am going to get a shopping list of what I need and as the cash becomes avail I will be working with Robert and DD to get what I need for the bird.

Thanks again guys for all the input, it was much appreciated and it seems like I will be sticking with the 4.6 after all!!! :D
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,961 Posts
OK, well I've done some more research and found myself to be really a NEWB for sure. So I'm sorry for the thread and cluttering up the board when the answer was actually just a couple of days of research away.

What I found : 405 HP and 393 FT LBS.
How it was done:

Heads - Either go with PI heads with a stage II port with Beehive valve springs or you can get Trick Flow TFS-51900002-M44 ($2,200) from Summit that come with the Beehives installed already and flow about the same as the ported ones in the article.

Intake - PI intake - I found one at Summit for $200.00 (I'm sure with research can get cheaper as with all these parts) Lower and the upper at around $270.00 w/ a 75mm TB included

Cams - Comp Cam part # XE270AH (2) - @ $600.00 for the pair

That combo with nothing else produced the aforementioned numbers at the Flywheel on a 118k stock 97' 4.6 SOHC Block

Article can be found at - http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/0909st_increasing_power_output_4_6l_modular_ford_motor/heads.html

So with all the other "constant" mods ie: tranny, TC, bracing, Gears etc. that is not a bad deal to mod up the motor without going crazy imo - then you can rebuild the bottom end and put a blower and maybe some funny juice on it and it will be lower than I initially thought by quite a bit.

Thanks again guys sorry for being a newb, but that's what these forums are for right? To help newbs like me lol
That article is soooo phony lol.
 

·
MAMN12 Posse Member
Joined
·
2,903 Posts
I see lots of our yr birds and cats with explorer motors and blowers etc, with my own research looks like to get into the 12's your looking at around 20k invested in motor, trans, and rear alone. ( I may be wrong on those numbers, again pls be gentle)

FYI, just throwing a number out there. I had less than $5k in my drivetrain that got me to 12.7's N/A.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
FYI, just throwing a number out there. I had less than $5k in my drivetrain that got me to 12.7's N/A.
Yep as I said - I was appologizing for cluttering up the board I should have done a bit more research on the matter. I did find 3 other builds that produced similar numbers as far as FWHP - so I doubt that article was phoney, but you never know I guess.

As always thanks for the input and Robert P., Darren, and Trunk Monkey have me going down the right path for my future upgrades.

Thanks again

TJ + Kris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Wow... your the first one to say go old school lol - honestly with all the modular know how here I'm just going to stick with getting the aforementioned mods, since I know what they can do and how much they will cost. Working on shopping list now - then to scope out some banks lol JKJK but yeah shopping list first then the money. Then a nice daily driver that can smoke some gm's at the track!!!

Most of all it will be a reliable and really fun car that I will get to enjoy with my NC buds here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,134 Posts
If you want 12s you'll prob be better off going with 4.10s or 4.30s, Although I guess since you will have a blower its not a must.

I am at the 160k mile mark on my bird so unless I win the lottery I will be going with the PI motor when this one starts giving me real problems just because I can pick one up for around 800 bucks and it will drop right in without changing the rest of the drivetrain. The only downside is it would almost be a step backwards since I might only gain 10hp from it.. ugh thats not a pleasant thought. lol..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,091 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Darren has almost the exact setup that I want - of course I will do some things differently, but its close and he's in the 12's no prob - so yeah that's the setup I'm going to go with imo. Thanks for all the input.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top