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Supposedly, it all comes from the same trucks. The only difference from brand to brand is the additive package. Some brands use better additives than others. I have always used Amoco, then BP. Brand loyalty is mostly psychological, and I buy into it like everyone else.

Here is a list of the non-ethanol (not methanol) gas stations, which are few and far between. Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

If you find one, be prepared to pay more than premium for 87 or 89 non-E. Some stations won't let you pump it in your car, only gas cans for you lawn equipment. Marinas all have it for the boats.

And while on that subject: the price point for 93 octane has gotten way out of whack in our area. It used to be around 30 cents more, but now it's 80 cents! $1.88 for regular VS $2.68 for premium. Anyone else seeing that?

Al
 

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All Top Tier fuels are good. There is no "Best".

See this website for details:

Retailers
 

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Supposedly, it all comes from the same trucks. The only difference from brand to brand is the additive package. Some brands use better additives than others. I have always used Amoco, then BP. Brand loyalty is mostly psychological, and I buy into it like everyone else.

Here is a list of the non-ethanol (not methanol) gas stations, which are few and far between. Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

If you find one, be prepared to pay more than premium for 87 or 89 non-E. Some stations won't let you pump it in your car, only gas cans for you lawn equipment. Marinas all have it for the boats.

And while on that subject: the price point for 93 octane has gotten way out of whack in our area. It used to be around 30 cents more, but now it's 80 cents! $1.88 for regular VS $2.68 for premium. Anyone else seeing that?

Al

It all depends on region.

Up here in Northern MN, we can only get 91 octane due to altitude. I don't know what it's like in Minneapolis/St Paul, but gas up here in the northern area (and in neighboring Wisconsin) is about $0.50 over regular for E-10, and non Ethanol premium (which is at most of our gas stations, labeled for "classic car/could be classic car in the future and off road use) is about $0.60 more a gallon.

I've noticed that I get slightly better economy running the E-10, so that's generally what I use. But I always run premium (or did anyway) because I had PI heads on a non PI, which needed more octane to fight the higher compression.

If your car is stock, you gain nothing running premium. At stock compression ratios, 87 octane is all you need unless you're tuned for high octane.
 

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My 2 cents.

E-10 has been used in my lawn business for 15 years.
16 hp self propelled Kohler engine mower.
Echo stick edger, echo weed wacker, and an echo backpack blower.

All of the above equipment have never had a failure of any plastic component
or engine problem.

The SP is 1989 vintage, the echo equipment is between 16 -17 years old.
Lastly, I'm not in the business any more, but the equipment runs well.

My cougar runs E-85 since 2009, not ever a fuel delivery issue.

Don't be afraid of the booze, plus the exhaust smells sweet.


And, I live % miles from Port Everglades, like the other posters said, all the raw
gasoline comes into the port, then it has the additive packages added when
its loaded into the trucks for delivery the the gas stations.

There is no more Hess in So. Fla.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK. I knew that the base fuel came from the same refineries and the additive package was the only difference, but thought one might be better.
Also, I know I'm headed for trouble here, but I have been told in the past that our cars EEC had a range of advance that could adjust some for differing fuel octane levels. I was told fill with premium and do a few hard acceleration runs. That would allow the computer to adjust for the fuel. Doing this I have noticed the car starts quicker and has better throttle response....
 

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OK. I knew that the base fuel came from the same refineries and the additive package was the only difference, but thought one might be better.
Also, I know I'm headed for trouble here, but I have been told in the past that our cars EEC had a range of advance that could adjust some for differing fuel octane levels. I was told fill with premium and do a few hard acceleration runs. That would allow the computer to adjust for the fuel. Doing this I have noticed the car starts quicker and has better throttle response....
Hard throttle will burn out carbon collections. The higher grade fuel also usually has more detergent in it to clean up fuel injectors, etc.

All told, 93 octane makes it harder to detonate, same with 108 race fuel. The purpose of higher octane is to require the spark to set it alight, so that compression doesn't do it, causing knocking. I am not sure what the capabilities of the onboard engine control are for adjusting to higher octane, but it makes sense it could handle it because folks put it in there, but it (and the 108) aren't giving you any extra power unless you have a tune for it, that actually has the spark adjusted for it.

On my 1999 Mustang GT, I got an 87 Octane "performance" tune for it because I didn't feel with low compression and no supporting mods it was worth it to go with higher octane. The car ran like a scared rabbit, and when I took it to a dealership to see what they'd give me for trade in the salesman thought it was cammed because he hadn't been in a 99-04 2v that felt that fast. But I had stock gears, stock exhaust, stock cams, stock everything except the tune. On my current thunderbird, it had PI heads on an NPI motor, so with the 10.3:1 compression, it needed 91 octane. My new motor has some significant work done to it, ported heads, stage 2 cams, headers, etc. So it's going to get a 91 octane tune to take as much advantage of the supporting mods as possible.

If your stations have poor quality gas for the lower tier gas, then yeah, the 93 makes sense. Personally, with low compression I think putting the 108 in is a waste of money.
 

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OK. I knew that the base fuel came from the same refineries and the additive package was the only difference, but thought one might be better.
Also, I know I'm headed for trouble here, but I have been told in the past that our cars EEC had a range of advance that could adjust some for differing fuel octane levels. I was told fill with premium and do a few hard acceleration runs. That would allow the computer to adjust for the fuel. Doing this I have noticed the car starts quicker and has better throttle response....


No, it doesn't work that way, feedback from the o2 sensors can adapt fuel trims in realtime but ignition advance is set from rigid spark tables. Now some cars with knock sensors can have the ability to run more advance if a higher than spec octane is run without pulling timing(though they still won't exceed whatever spark source they are using), but these cars don't have them and not all cars with them have a dynamic strategy for them. Stop listening to whoever is telling you these things!
 

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My 2 cents.

E-10 has been used in my lawn business for 15 years.

Don't be afraid of the booze, plus the exhaust smells sweet.

.
But what about the **** gas mileage of even E-10? They must have bumped it up to the full 10% recently because both of my cars took a 10% dump in gas mileage. And this is on top of it dropping several years ago when they first added the ethanol.

My T-Bird used to get 20 MPG, now gets 18. My Toyota used to get 14-15, now gets 12.5-13. And that's a drop from what they got a few years ago. These cars are very well maintained. Over the years, I have always gotten 4 MPG better than the EPA ratings on my cars. Now it's the same or lower.

I just cringe at what E-85 gas mileage would be if my cars took a 15% dump from only E-10. :surprise:

Al
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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E-10 will drop your fuel mileage 6-8%.

E-85 is the best, I'm running 13-1 compression ratio and buying pump gas for $1 per gallon less than 93.

Base your fuel usage on $ per mile not MPG, if that's so important.

Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK so I am putting you guys to the test. Drove out all the high octane in the bird this evening on a drive up to Luray Caverns. Filled up with 87 with methanol and no Lucas top cylinder lube either. Just for grins. I did not notice the car being overly sluggish and no problems starting. Tomorrow I will run up through the mountains of West Virginia and burn that up. Then with the seat of my pants still use to that, re fill with Shell 93 and 108 and see if there is a difference. Today was the first drop of fuel run through it with out the upper cylinder lube. Hope it doesn't fall apart>>>> LOL
 

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It'll be fine.

How many miles are on the motor? The sheer age of the motor will affect performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
90,400 as of now. Well cared for and never dogged, well not too hard anyway.
Hey one other question for Woodman. What is a performance tune? I'm old school. A tune to me is plugs, wires, and points.... LOL I didn't think there were any chips for the computers in 95's..
 

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90,400 as of now. Well cared for and never dogged, well not too hard anyway.
Hey one other question for Woodman. What is a performance tune? I'm old school. A tune to me is plugs, wires, and points.... LOL I didn't think there were any chips for the computers in 95's..
1995 Thunderbirds were one of the test beds for OBDII, you can get a chip, or even use an OBDII tuner. That' the "performance tune" I'm talking about. There should be an OBDII port in the passenger side footwell.

A "tune up" is plugs, wires, etc. A "tune" is reprogramming the computer. I know you won't "need" one for your 3.55 gears when you get them, but I'd still recommend one. It will optimize your shift points.
 

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I didn't think there were any chips for the computers in 95's..
V6 or V8?

For the V6, there's always the Moates Quarterhorse, that will allow people to tune the ECU dynamically.

For the V8 ... heh. It's OBDII, always been flashable on the 94+ MN12s. Again, you need someone to build the tune.

(Tuning the ECU is an analog to the mechanical tuning of distributor and carb jets, but with finer control and better adaptivity.)

RwP
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So that's what a tune is

1995 Thunderbirds were one of the test beds for OBDII, you can get a chip, or even use an OBDII tuner. That' the "performance tune" I'm talking about. There should be an OBDII port in the passenger side footwell.

A "tune up" is plugs, wires, etc. A "tune" is reprogramming the computer. I know you won't "need" one for your 3.55 gears when you get them, but I'd still recommend one. It will optimize your shift points.
OK, I am all over that. There is a computer port in the passengers side. I just had the codes read to find one code for the evap canister purge vlave up front under the passengers side bumper area, the other for the egr flow sensor on back of the intake that I had to disconnect to get the car running last winter.
Do you have any recommendations on which tuner is best, also which chip would be best?? I do want to change shift points, that was one thing I thought that B&M shift kit was going to do. (I know, if I end up replacing this transmission, the next one will get the JMOD). And I think someone answered this but Can you get the trans to shift on command?? It will keep in gear and shift when it wants even when I tell it to shift to 2nd. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #19
V6 or V8?

For the V6, there's always the Moates Quarterhorse, that will allow people to tune the ECU dynamically.

For the V8 ... heh. It's OBDII, always been flashable on the 94+ MN12s. Again, you need someone to build the tune.

(Tuning the ECU is an analog to the mechanical tuning of distributor and carb jets, but with finer control and better adaptivity.)

RwP
Hi Ralph,
it's a 4.6. I used to have the buckskin car shown on the top of our page (one like it), that was a 6 and really enjoyed that car. Even when it popped the head gaskets at 140,000 miles it got me home from Florida with over a quart of water in my Royal purple oil. And kept going until 256,000 when a trucker bought it ass end first.... that's how a I came to find this one.
 

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My main point was that the ECU for all 4.6 MN12s is tunable without chips; it's all done internally, due to being flash programmable.

Secret is a) finding a "tuner" that can talk to your ECU properly, and b) finding a "tuner" person that can set up the hardware tuner effectively.

Two of the best references to learning how to tune the ECU are Lasota's books ( from LaSota Racing Ford Tuning & Training ) (He also does tuning, BTW) and Greg Banish's books ( https://www.amazon.com/Greg-Banish/e/B001JOVJT2 for instance ).

RwP
 
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