TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok so i have a 94 bird with the 4.6. The car has been having this issue now for a while. When i floor the gas it is very slow from 1k - 3k rpm, after 3k it wakes up (meaning it has more pickup). This happens when the car is cold or hot. So i am thinking it is time for a new motor due to the fact it has over 270K on it. I have the new motor priced out at 300.00 with 80K with warranty but dont have the space to do a motor swap on it. Now the check engine light is on but throws a code for the EGR valve is stuck open. Which i dont think it would cause the motor to bog out. But who knows i could be wrong. So i am looking for any advice for fixing this issue or should i not deal with it and do a motor swap on it. Thanks in advanced. Roland.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
No matter what it's going to be a great idea if you swap out the motor but only if you aren't replacing it with yet another PITA 94/95 4.6L. Well, the block itself isn't that bad but the heads are junk and it's easier to swap an engine than it is to swap heads. So, in the least you should drop in a 96/97 NPI or go for PI engine from a 02-05 Explorer, (I can't recall the exact years to be honest but a simple search will reveal the truth or someone else will correct me). For an NPI swap you won't have to swap intakes but it would be a good idea. That way if you do go with a PI engine or PI intake later you won't have to do as much work.

I've heard of the EGR valve causing all sorts of problems including making the engine bog. This could be the cause of your lack of power but I'm betting it has more to do with a dirty MAF sensor. You haven't stated what you've done to the car, (for instance new spark plugs + wires, air filter, etc, etc, etc) so nobody here can really give you much advice except for the same basic routine maintenance that should have been done before even asking for advice. Seriously, every week someone starts a new topic saying how bad their car runs and it turns out it's something stupidly simple like bad spark plugs or a dirty MAF sensor. Search is your friend and if you want your searches narrowed down use a '+' between words and put exact phrases in quotation marks ("word+word"). There are more tips than that but I don't have the details handy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
No matter what it's going to be a great idea if you swap out the motor but only if you aren't replacing it with yet another PITA 94/95 4.6L. Well, the block itself isn't that bad but the heads are junk and it's easier to swap an engine than it is to swap heads. So, in the least you should drop in a 96/97 NPI or go for PI engine from a 02-05 Explorer, (I can't recall the exact years to be honest but a simple search will reveal the truth or someone else will correct me). For an NPI swap you won't have to swap intakes but it would be a good idea. That way if you do go with a PI engine or PI intake later you won't have to do as much work.

I've heard of the EGR valve causing all sorts of problems including making the engine bog. This could be the cause of your lack of power but I'm betting it has more to do with a dirty MAF sensor. You haven't stated what you've done to the car, (for instance new spark plugs + wires, air filter, etc, etc, etc) so nobody here can really give you much advice except for the same basic routine maintenance that should have been done before even asking for advice. Seriously, every week someone starts a new topic saying how bad their car runs and it turns out it's something stupidly simple like bad spark plugs or a dirty MAF sensor. Search is your friend and if you want your searches narrowed down use a '+' between words and put exact phrases in quotation marks ("word+word"). There are more tips than that but I don't have the details handy.
Sorry about that this is everything that i have done so far.... Tune-up (plugs and wires), oil change, fuel filter, Cold air intake, exhaust with only cats so no mufflers, 99 tranny swap, 3500 stall torque. also cleaned MAF nothing seems to help it. Also are you saying that the 96/97 t-birds came with the PI heads and Intake manifold?? If so then great i will swap that in. I was just going to put the same exact motor that is in it. Well if that is the case it i will do a pi motor swap, would everything bolt up and second wouldn't i have to get the car tuned for the ECU to read the motor??? One last thing would a 97 Mercury Grand Marquis have the PI intake and heads? thanks in advanced
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
No, the 96/97 engines are all NPI but that's not neccesarily a bad thing. If you look in the 4.6L forum you'll see a topic about the NPI heads with mild cams and how much power Nick got out them. Those are some very impressive numbers too! PI heads don't have as many options when it comes to cams and they have a mechanical restriction that doesn't allow for the kind of cams the NPI heads can have. PI engines are great when compared to stock or mostly stock NPI engines especially when you factor in how light the aluminum PI engines are. Some people like using PI heads on NPI blocks because of the added bump in compression but that'll still only get you so far. Then there are those who prefer NPI heads but still use the PI intake because PI intakes flow soooo much better than the NPI intakes.

Depending on your application and how much you want to spend you can go either way. If you're not planning on producing large amounts of power and don't want to spend a lot of cash than a PI swap would be a good idea. You can still get a lot of power from a PI engine though but I think it'll cost a bit more in the long run. It's just the initial investment for a PI swap is rather cheap and may make you pretty happy for awhile but can still be added on.

Did you get a tune (aka chip) after you got the torque convertor? I'm not sure if that'll affect the overall torque under 3500K but I thought a tune was needed whenever a higher stall TC is used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
sounds like spark plugs or wires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
sounds like spark plugs or wires.
I agree but mostly only if the spark plugs hadn't been gapped correctly. He did say that he replaced the plugs and wires but not exactly how long ago. Even new wires can be bad but there would be an obvious misfire unless of course the new wires just suck.:tongue: Even the plugs could be the cause even if they are rather new if they are Bosche plugs because they suck too in mod motors! My car didn't impress me much from the starting line but after I replaced the plugs and added a chip I was floored!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Well the plugs and wires were replaced less than a month ago, also the following has been done this month, Fuel filter, clean MAF once a week still no change, put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank hoping that would help, which of course it didnt. Well i do work on cars alot but just cant seem to figure this issue. I have autolite double plat. in the car, which so far they look clean just checked them today, its definitly not a miss fire, also upgraded the coil packs from MSD, got some pick up from that, but i know this car should not be this slow. I cant take anybody off the line. It just bogs out. I doubt there is anything wrong with my cats, if there were my o2 sensor would pick up on that, which were also replaced last month. Basically everything that i tought would cause this issue was replaced but now it fixes nothing. Also the car has had this problem for ever now, even before the new transmission was installed, so this would be a prexisting issues before any of the following was done. The only thing that hasnt been done yet would be an oil change. I am thinking it has something to do with the one of the following:

Egr valve
Cams (worn)
Low Compression
Heads
Or just my luck lol.

Thanks for all of your help.
Roland
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
No, the 96/97 engines are all NPI but that's not neccesarily a bad thing. If you look in the 4.6L forum you'll see a topic about the NPI heads with mild cams and how much power Nick got out them. Those are some very impressive numbers too! PI heads don't have as many options when it comes to cams and they have a mechanical restriction that doesn't allow for the kind of cams the NPI heads can have. PI engines are great when compared to stock or mostly stock NPI engines especially when you factor in how light the aluminum PI engines are. Some people like using PI heads on NPI blocks because of the added bump in compression but that'll still only get you so far. Then there are those who prefer NPI heads but still use the PI intake because PI intakes flow soooo much better than the NPI intakes.

Depending on your application and how much you want to spend you can go either way. If you're not planning on producing large amounts of power and don't want to spend a lot of cash than a PI swap would be a good idea. You can still get a lot of power from a PI engine though but I think it'll cost a bit more in the long run. It's just the initial investment for a PI swap is rather cheap and may make you pretty happy for awhile but can still be added on.

Did you get a tune (aka chip) after you got the torque convertor? I'm not sure if that'll affect the overall torque under 3500K but I thought a tune was needed whenever a higher stall TC is used.
So the 96/97 engines have the pi heads but not the intake right??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Neither. All NPI.
Ok. Thanks for letting me know that. I was reading another post and i guess with the npi engines like mine love to have cams in them. According to what i was reading it also does alot for the motor. So i think what i am going to do is do a motor swap with a 4.6 NPI from a 96/97 t-bird and build it up so when i drop it in it will be a hugh difference. But still want to know why it bogs out though...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Ok. Thanks for letting me know that. I was reading another post and i guess with the npi engines like mine love to have cams in them. According to what i was reading it also does alot for the motor. So i think what i am going to do is do a motor swap with a 4.6 NPI from a 96/97 t-bird and build it up so when i drop it in it will be a hugh difference. But still want to know why it bogs out though...
If you're putting a motor in it, do the Explorer swap. You'll be happier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
If you're putting a motor in it, do the Explorer swap. You'll be happier.
what is the differnce between the explorer motor and a 97 t-bird motor? so far what i have found is that the 97 motor is pushing a little more horse's than what i have in it. Not sure but i think it has the newer heads on that. But please correct me if i am wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
No offense or anything but maybe you should read the post before you reply. I had alrdy done wires/plugs and cleaned the maf. I dont think it has anything to do with the fuel pump readgarding that is pretty new.
No offense or anything, but don't trust new parts just because they're new. I've seen six month old fuel pumps die spontaneously, and I've seen 20 year old fuel pumps still working without a problem.

what is the differnce between the explorer motor and a 97 t-bird motor? so far what i have found is that the 97 motor is pushing a little more horse's than what i have in it. Not sure but i think it has the newer heads on that. But please correct me if i am wrong.
That 97 motor has a better intake manifold, and that's basically the performance difference.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=94152 <-- Exploder swap info
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,591 Posts
Have you done a compression test?

Low compression wakes up at higher rpms; at 270k it's a possibility, but not a great one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
No offense or anything, but don't trust new parts just because they're new. I've seen six month old fuel pumps die spontaneously, and I've seen 20 year old fuel pumps still working without a problem.
Yea i know that new parts can fail too. But if it was a fuel pump issue the car wouldn't start like it does. Once you turn the key she fires right on up. Second that has been checked, my dude owns his on shop and we did a pressure check to see if that was the issues first. Everything came back great.. No offense or nothing.


Have you done a compression test?

Low compression wakes up at higher rpms; at 270k it's a possibility, but not a great one.
No i havent checked the compression yet, but that was a thought. Havent really had the time to check it yet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,362 Posts
Just a thought. I don't know your age, or what you may be comparing the T'bird to? Like a Mustang maybe? But the T'bird is heavier and takes a bit to get moving. These cars don't really have that much "A**" behind them. Max torque numbers ( '93 5.0 - [email protected],000, '94 4.6 - [email protected],200, '97 4.6 - [email protected],000). So, maybe it just feels like it falls on it's "A**" until it hits 3,000 or so? I know it feels that way to me in my T'bird. On the other side, my DD is a '91 Tracer LTS 5 speed with the 1.8 DOHC engine. It's redline is 7,000 rpm. Max torque on it hits at about 5,500, and max HP is at 6,500. So I really need to wind the thing out and keep it there for it to really feel snappy. It sounds like it wants to blow apart, but that's were it likes it. So when I hop in the T'bird after driving the LTS for several weeks, the T'bird feels really flat below 3,000. For me anyway :rolleyes: Just thought I'd throw that ouit there.........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Just a thought. I don't know your age, or what you may be comparing the T'bird to? Like a Mustang maybe? But the T'bird is heavier and takes a bit to get moving. These cars don't really have that much "A**" behind them. Max torque numbers ( '93 5.0 - [email protected],000, '94 4.6 - [email protected],200, '97 4.6 - [email protected],000). So, maybe it just feels like it falls on it's "A**" until it hits 3,000 or so? I know it feels that way to me in my T'bird. On the other side, my DD is a '91 Tracer LTS 5 speed with the 1.8 DOHC engine. It's redline is 7,000 rpm. Max torque on it hits at about 5,500, and max HP is at 6,500. So I really need to wind the thing out and keep it there for it to really feel snappy. It sounds like it wants to blow apart, but that's were it likes it. So when I hop in the T'bird after driving the LTS for several weeks, the T'bird feels really flat below 3,000. For me anyway :rolleyes: Just thought I'd throw that ouit there.........
Well i had test drove another t-bird like mine, it was bone stock. (with less miles) My t-bird bogs out at 3k i should take a video of it so you guys know what i am talking about. Its really bad. Like it has no pick up from the 1k - 3k and after 3k the car wakes up and is a bat out of hell. But just when it is trying to get up there. also i have noticed as well now, that if i floor it, it takes it a bit, but if i ease into the gas it works alot better. Now this i have never ran into before i am thinking at this point to swap the motor, or take the intake manifold off the car and get it port and polished. But i really dont want to throw anymore money into this thing until i know for sure. Car has really sucked me dry lately and it seems like nothing is getting fixed. If it isnt one thing, its another.... My life story lol.

P.S. I am 24 yrs old and yes i am trying to take a 2000 mustang gt with exhaust, intake, and pullies. I have full exhaust, cold air intake, pullies on the way and 4:10 on the way. Think i can take it?
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top