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Discussion Starter #1
I was looking over scp.com today and I was reading about the C&L Plenum.From what it is saying it will prove useful.Anyone who has ran this please tell me your thoughts.Was it worth it?Does it help in performance???I want to buy it but I want your opinion first.My stock 96 piece is the last stock part of my induction system.


http://supercoupeperformance.com/partBrowser.aspx?partId=315
 

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I didnt purchase the C&L but rather the Trick Flow one for the bird with the extra vacuum port. did i notice significant power increase...probably not however better throttle response, (but i did install a 70mm tb at the same time) so i guess it goes without saying, the more you have done the more it would probably make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I didnt purchase the C&L but rather the Trick Flow one for the bird with the extra vacuum port.
According to the article it is designed for the MN12 application.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I was just told it makes not much of a difference at all buy a member here.Maybe in high rpms????I don't understand how someone can claim such numbers and not have a difference in power.Not looking for a SOTP difference here guys.Just trying to eliminate something off of my things to do.If it offers no gain than whats the point?Here are the numbers SCP is saying.

Stock Plenum - 466 CFM
Stock Plenum with 70mm TB - 486 CFM 4% Increase
Ported Plenum with 70mm TB* - 530 CFM 13.7% Increase
C&L Plenum with 70mm TB - 550 CFM 18% Increase
C&L Plenum with 75mm TB - 580 CFM 24.5% Increase


"C&L Plenum with 70mm TB" This is what my combo would be.I noticed little difference with the 70mm TB alone.Throttle response was noticely better but is hard to tell from any gains through the RPM's.

I figured if I finished it,it would be more benificail and work better with the TB and SCP intake.

Keep in mind my application is not stock.So wouldn't the numbers actually be greater?Or at least feel better?
 

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dont just take my word for it.....you answered your own question there....you just dont know it :)

at 5700 RPMs, a PI engine will consume ~26 #/min of air....converted to CFM using standardized weather conditions, you get 322 CFM......the engine is simply not going to take in more air unless you add forced induction....now compare this to the values you posted above.....the stock plenum on its own is indeed capable of flowing that much air

it might reduce just a tad bit of restriction, but i doubt it would really be that much.....remember you can also find out for yourself by datalogging......im sure you could swap plenums within an hour's time to do a semi back-to-back datalog session
 

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Discussion Starter #7
dont just take my word for it.....you answered your own question there....you just dont know it :)

at 5700 RPMs, a PI engine will consume ~26 #/min of air....converted to CFM using standardized weather conditions, you get 322 CFM......the engine is simply not going to take in more air unless you add forced induction....now compare this to the values you posted above.....the stock plenum on its own is indeed capable of flowing that much air

it might reduce just a tad bit of restriction, but i doubt it would really be that much.....remember you can also find out for yourself by datalogging......im sure you could swap plenums within an hour's time to do a semi back-to-back datalog session
Hey,If I do buy it than thats what I'll do.I'll datalog and see what the difference is.I appreciate your PM too.Whole lot of info you gave me.I think I might datalog it tonight and see what the numbers are.Any tips on what RPM to do that at?And what function I need to use from LiveLink?
 

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Anytime you can give the engine the ability to breath in more air it is a good thing. That is why the first thing we do is tear that punny stock air filter off and put on one that can breath. It's the same reason we open the exhaust. To get that extra 2-5 HP out of the engine. Some guys talk as if 5 HP doesn't mean diddly squat. If they don't want it I'll take it. You can bet your bottom dollar if someone in the pro racing world finds a way to get 5HP more out of an engine, they are gonna do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've seen first hand, a gain of 1hp by instaling a C&L.
Well then I don't understand how they can make the claims that they do??How can they make such claims of big Horse power but in reality there is no gain.What gives.
 

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look closely and you'll see almost all products say "up to XX HP gains".....technically if your car makes 0 HP gains, they wouldnt be liable for anything because that phrase means anywhere from 0 to XX HP, including 0 hp........it sucks but its true, because the aftermarket manufacturer has no way of verifying the condition of the vehicles that their product is going into, so they have to word everything very carefully to avoid any legal issues with false advertisement....they probably dyno tens of cars, maybe even more, until they run into one that for whatever reason gains that XX HP after the plenum was installed.....then they probably say it's safe to say that even though some gained 0, and some gained XX HP, the average is 0 to XX HP gain, worded as "up to XX HP"....clever huh?

oh and to datalog the "usefullness" of such a product, you'd want to log RPM, MAF counts, airflow #/min, and acceleration rate should you chose to buy it
 

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Discussion Starter #12
look closely and you'll see almost all products say "up to XX HP gains".....technically if your car makes 0 HP gains, they wouldnt be liable for anything because that phrase means anywhere from 0 to XX HP, including 0 hp........it sucks but its true, because the aftermarket manufacturer has no way of verifying the condition of the vehicles that their product is going into, so they have to word everything very carefully to avoid any legal issues with false advertisement....they probably dyno tens of cars, maybe even more, until they run into one that for whatever reason gains that XX HP after the plenum was installed.....then they probably say it's safe to say that even though some gained 0, and some gained XX HP, the average is 0 to XX HP gain, worded as "up to XX HP"....clever huh?

oh and to datalog the "usefullness" of such a product, you'd want to log RPM, MAF counts, airflow #/min, and acceleration rate should you chose to buy it
Eh screw it than.I'll just buy a stall.
 

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Baddest N/A NPI in Canada
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I have that C&L part on my car. It is not plug and play for a TBird/Cougar, you have to modify a vacuum line to get it to work. Did it gain anything on my car, don't know. Mine will be for sale as soon as I have my SVO intake back.
 

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Well I just did a PI cam and intak swap on my car and today I added an 70 or 75mm throttle body and plenum... To be honest I felt a small difference... mainly in throttle response definitely not the first thing I would recommend doing...
 

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It is ironic that you have "stall converter" in your signature.

Russ
Sorry, thats a common misconception. The "3800 stall" is a modifier of "converter"

Thats like you saying you have 18 inch wheels. I like Inch Wheels. Those look nice :tongue:
 
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