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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay gang, I need some advice from some real experienced V6'rs here.

I bought my cam today but it wont be here for a few weeks. I bought it from Tom over at supersixmotorsports. He told me that he didn't think I would need to change the push rods and lifters, but the only way to know for sure, is once I get it all torn down, only then will I be able to know if I need to replace pushrods and lifters. He said that I shouldn't need to though.

The Cam I bought is a 212/218 .54-.545 w/1.7's .554 w/1.73's 110 lobe seperation. The factory cam on the 96-98 3.8's is 184/202 with a .050 lift, .424/.448 valve lift and 110 lobe seperation. Have any of you guys used a cam like this on a 96-98 3.8 Ford and if so, did you need to change pushrods and lifters? If so, what size did you have to go with? I have going on 94K on the clock.

Thanks
 

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Okay gang, I need some advice from some real experienced V6'rs here.

I bought my cam today but it wont be here for a few weeks. I bought it from Tom over at supersixmotorsports. He told me that he didn't think I would need to change the push rods and lifters, but the only way to know for sure, is once I get it all torn down, only then will I be able to know if I need to replace pushrods and lifters. He said that I shouldn't need to though.

The Cam I bought is a 212/218 .540/.540 The lift is .545 w/1.7's, .554 w/1.73's.110 lobe seperation with the spacer and key pre-installed. The factory cam on the 96-98 3.8's is 184/202 with a .050 lift, .424/.448 valve lift and 110 lobe seperation. Have any of you guys used a cam like this on a 96-98 3.8 Ford and if so, did you need to change pushrods and lifters? If so, what size did you have to go with? I have going on 94K on the clock.

Thanks
Edited/comments removed

ps BlakTbird96........... I put 325k on the V6. Have fun! DUDE
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I know nothing about V-6's when it comes to cam specs. I have a "MAJOR" problem with a cam seller who can't make lifter recommendations, not mentioned is "spring specs", not just seat/full lift tensions but lb/inch specs. Pushrods, you will always have to measure, to many variables. So what minimum requirements are there for the pushrods? Your using this on a stock head? 110* LSA. Is this off .50 lift, then you have valve/piston clearance issues possible (do you know how to check?). What spec did he give you for the torque converter? How about minimum exhaust? What minimal specs you have been given would be considered mild on a 347, stout on a 302, radical on a 232. Are you prepared for this? If not this is "CRAP"!

Sorry, this is not opinion!
Brad

:confused: Dude, I can't tell if you're yelling, mocking me, or what? Take a zanny bro, sorry about the dude whose giving you issues. My question was more directed towards the 3.8'rs incase ya didn't notice.
 

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:confused: Dude, I can't tell if you're yelling, mocking me, or what? Take a zanny bro, sorry about the dude whose giving you issues.
I am not yelling at you, at the man selling you a 3200lb Mustang cam for your 3800lb TBird, yes. I will go remove my post. Sorry. Good luck.

Brad
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #5
I am not yelling at you, at the man selling you a 3200lb Mustang cam for your 3800lb TBird, yes. I will go remove my post. Sorry. Good luck.

Brad
hehehe, no problem dude, miscommunication happens. Actually, he said the cam he's selling me is better for the heavier cars. I'm just not quite sure how to determine the lift.

First he said it's a .54/.54, then he says its a .54-.545w/1.7's and .554 w/1.73's I don't know what the phuk this means. YIKES!!! I guess I should have took some autotech back in the day. hehehe it's like algebra class all over. BLAH:zpuke:
 

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hehehe, no problem dude, miscommunication happens. Actually, he said the cam he's selling me is better for the heavier cars. I'm just not quite sure how to determine the lift.

First he said it's a .54/.54, then he says its a .54-.545w/1.7's and .554 w/1.73's I don't know what the phuk this means. YIKES!!! I guess I should have took some autotech back in the day. hehehe it's like algebra class all over. BLAH:zpuke:
Not bad if you had a 350 cube 6 cylinder with the heads to feed it. The numbers just don't work. Sorry, you asked. The rest I said fits with "any" cam purchase. Proper springs work with the ramps of the cam to create maximum lifter "and" valve control while using the least horsepower. I still don't understand how you are going to know when "you take your engine apart". I wouldn't and I think I might just have a little more tear down experience. I am not a cam man. Know enough to hire one.

Brad
 

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The Cam I bought is a 212/218 .54-.545 w/1.7's .554 w/1.73's 110 lobe seperation. The factory cam on the 96-98 3.8's is 184/202 with a .050 lift, .424/.448 valve lift and 110 lobe seperation


The 212/218 is the duration ( intake/exhaust how long the valve stays open)

.540/.545 is the lift of the valve w/ a 1.7 rocker arm ratio
.554 is with the 1.73 ratio

110 lsa is the seperation of the lobe centerlines (bigger number less overlap)

So the cam you have has 28º intake and 16º exhaust more duration than stock.
The lift will vary on the rocker ratio but likely a .115intake/.100exhaust increase
and the 110 lsa didnt change from stock. So it should have a smooth idle close to stock with good vaccum.
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #9
I'm trying to get a hold of Tom to make a better comparison. I don't understand how to read the numbers,

The factory cam on the 96-98 3.8's is: 184/202 @ .050 lift, .424/.448 valve lift, 110 lobe seperation.

The cam I bought is: 212/218, .54/.54 valve lift with 110 lobe seperation. What is the regular "lift" on this cam, not the valve lift. Just like the lift for the factory cam says ".050 lift", what is it on this one that I bought?
 

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I'm trying to get a hold of Tom to make a better comparison. I don't understand how to read the numbers,

The factory cam on the 96-98 3.8's is: 184/202 @ .050 lift, .424/.448 valve lift, 110 lobe seperation.

The cam I bought is: 212/218, .54/.54 valve lift with 110 lobe seperation. What is the regular "lift" on this cam, not the valve lift. Just like the lift for the factory cam says ".050 lift", what is it on this one that I bought?
Lift is lift. You are confusing duration which is how long the cam is keeping the valve open vs. lift which is how far the valve is opened (lifted) off the seat. Duration #'s used to be calculated at all different lifts (starting/ending points) but how has standardized at .050 lift before duration #'s are calculated. Believe it or not, there are far more important #'s that you are not getting with these cam specs. IO/IC/ICent..........EO/EC/ECent are far more important. From these #'s comes all the duration and LSA calculations. When a cam seller only lists the 212/218, .54/.54 valve lift with 110 lobe seperation type numbers it tells very little. Fits all the magazine articles though. Kinda like make the highest peak horsepower on the dyno. Has nothing to do with how engine will perform in a package.

Brad
 

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Here is Buddy Rawls site:

http://wighat.com/fcr3/camtruth.htm

It is worth the time to get a good overview on camshafts. He has great graphics once you get through the technical. You can't just throw a camshaft in that someone says worked great for them. There is a whole lot more to it. Hope this helps. I'm not dissing you at all. I have been there and done that.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't think I told you that I'm not putting this on a stock engine. I am installing this cam along with ported/polished heads and intakes and a bigger throttle body if that makes a difference.
 

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I don't think I told you that I'm not putting this on a stock engine. I am installing this cam along with ported/polished heads and intakes and a bigger throttle body if that makes a difference.
I would hope so. Are you married to this cam yet? What else have you done? Gears I hope. Transmission? Exhaust. Those are restrictive stock headers. Don't get me wrong, I have had my a** handed to me a few times by SC's so I have no preconceived ideas about the 3.8. I thought it was an "adequate" engine for the car stock.

Brad
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #14
I would hope so. Are you married to this cam yet? What else have you done? Gears I hope. Transmission? Exhaust. Those are restrictive stock headers. Don't get me wrong, I have had my a** handed to me a few times by SC's so I have no preconceived ideas about the 3.8. I thought it was an "adequate" engine for the car stock.

Brad

I have a 2800 high stall (dirty d0g) converter, dual exhaust (pumpkin back), removed air silencer, shift kit, underdrive pulleys.
 

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I have a 2800 high stall (dirty d0g) converter, dual exhaust (pumpkin back), removed air silencer, shift kit, underdrive pulleys.
I did observe your et's. You are going to want to move forward of the axle on the exhaust. Get the restrictions out of the way. I know many think true duals or 3" going around the tank are overkill on a V6. I don't. Headers either. What gear you running? You are hauling a load with no reasonable way to change it. Doesn't mean you can't run, just need to prepare better.

Brad
 

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3" would kill velocity creating a poor scavenging effect. 3" single isnt even recomended on a stock NA 281 . I wouldnt effect power but will kill torque down low. Why are you installing a cam in your 3.8?
 

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3" would kill velocity creating a poor scavenging effect. 3" single isnt even recomended on a NA 281. I wouldnt effect power but will kill torque down low. Why are you installing a cam in your 3.8?
So, we must agree to disagree. Too many magazines. We're not talking long tube header pipes here where scavenging is an issue. It's all about the cam timing events at his power level, my power level, etc. If the engine loses power with a free flowing muffled exhaust, the cam is wrong. On a fuel injected engine, if the engine gains power with a more restricted intake, the cam is wrong. Go run around the block breathing both ways through a straw. Do it again with your mouth open. Now tell me, which way is "your" engine better off. All the rest is event timing. Basic 101 engine specs been around forever whether timed by a camshaft or a port.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Why are you installing a cam in your 3.8?
Because I want it to be quicker!!! I'm doing a cam, ported/polished heads, intakes, larger throttle body. Some here say V6's are a waste of money to try an make faster, but I'm determined and I'm going to do whatever I can to "git r done" Some V6'rs here have done it and there are plenty of 3.8 Mustangs running 12's and 13's without nitrous or a blower. The Tbird is about 300-500lbs heavier so it may not be as fast with the same mods as the V6 Stangs, but it should definantly be an improvement over what I got now.
I'm not trying to get an all out "drag car" but I want more pep.
 

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Because I want it to be quicker!!! I'm doing a cam, ported/polished heads, intakes, larger throttle body. Some here say V6's are a waste of money to try an make faster, but I'm determined and I'm going to do whatever I can to "git r done" Some V6'rs here have done it and there are plenty of 3.8 Mustangs running 12's and 13's without nitrous or a blower. The Tbird is about 300-500lbs heavier so it may not be as fast with the same mods as the V6 Stangs, but it should definantly be an improvement over what I got now.
I'm not trying to get an all out "drag car" but I want more pep.
Amazing, I guess Ford was wasting their time when the put the SC on the 3.8! Keep at it. I'm never going to turn 10-11's with a stock block 5.0 like the Mustangs can either but it's already more fun to drive. I love those kindof questions.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Amazing, I guess Ford was wasting their time when the put the SC on the 3.8! Keep at it. I'm never going to turn 10-11's with a stock block 5.0 like the Mustangs can either but it's already more fun to drive. I love those kindof questions.

Brad

At the time the SC's came out, there wasn't really any aftermarket for the 3.8 dude. Now, those SC's can be set up to run 10's and 11's. Maybe I was exagerating about alot of 3.8 Mustangs turning 12's without a blower or nitrous, but I think there are a few, but I'll have to check up and let you know. I do know there are several well into the 13's.

Hell though, it can happen, look at the 3.8's in the GM's. Look at the 3.8's in the 1980's Buick Grand Nationals.
 
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