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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
sorry for lot's of question this past week but if between these 2 cost aside which will you choose and why?

crower stage 2 cam or bullit intake swap on pi explorer motor?

thanks.
 

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Baby Huey
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cams= more bang for your buck
 

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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks greenbird and warmaster259.

also looking for valvespring, crower have couple, which one do i need?

the titanium retainer is a good idea?
 

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Super Moderator
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generally, yes titanium retainers are a good idea from what i've read

im not sure what the lobe separation is on off-the-shelf crowers, but make sure it is no less than 112 degrees, since less than that it might affect our vacuum-assisted brakes
 

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cams all around is what i would go for. The modulars sound awesome cammed. You woulnt see that much improvment with the bullit. Only thing to remember is the cams can cause emissions issues. Also with stage 2 cams its recomended to upgrade the TC.
 

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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Crower's Stg 2 PI N/A cam. 224/228 @.050, .559/.570 lift, 114 LSA.


that's the cam spec.

tc will be 3500 stalled upgrade together with the swap.
 

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You don't need titanium retainers on these unless you are planning to rev to like 7000RPM, the small retainers these heads use don't weigh that much to begin with.

IMHO cams before intake, the Bullit and other intakes gain very little over the plastic PI, and the aluminum makes them run really hot. IMHO thats a pretty chunky cam, I would prefer to see that with more compression, some headwork, and a real serious exhaust.
 

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nickmckinney said:
I would prefer to see that with more compression, some headwork, and a real serious exhaust.
.....and not having to push a nearly 4,000lb car around to boot. I'd consider something that promoted a little more low and mid range power to give these pigs a more usable power band. :D
 

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Looks like we will have very similar engine builds Casper. I'm planning on doing a PI+Crower2s later this summer. Lets hope they turn out well!
 

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Refrigerator Raider Hater
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I would go with crower or Manley springs. No need for Ti retainers. For the small $$$ difference, I would go with crower's HP spring over their basic spring (PN 68198 instead of 68197).

nickmckinney said:
IMHO thats a pretty chunky cam, I would prefer to see that with more compression, some headwork, and a real serious exhaust.
Umm, perhaps you should re-read the specs.
 

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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
where to buy the spring and the camshaft?

everywhere is selling the comps mostly
 

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GreenBird said:
Umm, perhaps you should re-read the specs.

I did, from what I understand its a 4000lb with driver boat with a 3.73 gear, stock heads, stock intake, stock exhaust manifolds, stock compression, with a 3500 converter. If thats the case thats a big cam for this combo IMHO. I would want to see NPI pistons (10.5:1 compression with PI heads) and more rear gear with that cam at a minimum.
 

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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
nickmckinney said:
I did, from what I understand its a 4000lb with driver boat with a 3.73 gear, stock heads, stock intake, stock exhaust manifolds, stock compression, with a 3500 converter. If thats the case thats a big cam for this combo IMHO. I would want to see NPI pistons (10.5:1 compression with PI heads) and more rear gear with that cam at a minimum.

it's a full pi motor with pi intake, 2.5 true dual setup.
 

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Fry Rice Specialist
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

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Casper said:
they sell crower?

actually i'm going to novi tommorrow and i'll sure to stop by there.

thanks.
yeah. john and mike tymensky can get you whatever you need.... RPMoutlet.com sells crower also, but mod perf is in michigander and they are the pros in mod motors.

they be good people.


just as an FYI, I usually dont recommend retailers who dont sell the **** you ask for;)
 

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nickmckinney said:
I did, from what I understand its a 4000lb with driver boat with a 3.73 gear, stock heads, stock intake, stock exhaust manifolds, stock compression, with a 3500 converter. If thats the case thats a big cam for this combo IMHO. I would want to see NPI pistons (10.5:1 compression with PI heads) and more rear gear with that cam at a minimum.
Why?

Gears aren't going to effect the power output or powercurve of the engine. It will put you in a different spot on the powercurve after shifts, but being a stock motor, and him probably not wanting to rev it over 6000rpms, that limits him to 4.10s at a maximum. there is a 10% difference between 4.10s, and 3.73s. If he is interested in still getting good highway mileage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

As for compression, yes, it would make more power, but does he need it? No. Warlockguitarman put out (Note: I cannot attest to the accuracy of the Dyno's calibration) 279hp with these cams on a pi headswap'd engine with the powercurve starting around 4000 and ending at a little higher than 6000rpms. If you lower the compression, you will loose power the entire powerband, but the characteristics of the curve won't change enough to need to switch pistons....

He might need more than 3500 stall, but thats his prefrence, and its not a requirement. Once again, it all depends on his goal for this car.
 

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Silenced said:
Why?

Gears aren't going to effect the power output or powercurve of the engine. It will put you in a different spot on the powercurve after shifts, but being a stock motor, and him probably not wanting to rev it over 6000rpms, that limits him to 4.10s at a maximum. there is a 10% difference between 4.10s, and 3.73s. If he is interested in still getting good highway mileage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that..
I disagree with that outlook. Although the gears aren't going to change the engines total output or his engines horsepower curve.....in a heavier vehicle, the faster you're able to bring the engine into its power band the better off you'll be. The Mustang guys are running 4.10 gears minimum with these cams along with better breathing heads and they're not lugging around the additional 500lbs, or sucking it through an independent rear suspension like we are. If he really wants to make the best use out of these cams, he should swap out to a set of 4.30-4.56's and concentrate on getting the engine to breath better. That’s what would net him the best performance. Gas mileage is guaranteed to suffer, but since he's already saddling the car with a 3,500 stall converter and is considering this camshafts to begin with, I'm sure fuel economy is secondary on his list of things to accomplish. Besides, there gets a point where you have to decide which is more important to you. Going fast in a strait line, or being able to drive in that strait line longer between fill ups. :D

If a lumpy idle, with a lazier low end, decent mid range/top end pull and a marginal improvement in peek horsepower figures are his goal, then these cams by themselves will do the trick. But with the weight of his car and use of otherwise stock engine components, he'll likely be better off as far as over all horsepower/torque, drivability and fuel economy are concerned with a less aggressive grind. Not to mention he'll still retain the use of his stock valve springs while doing so. :thumbsup:
 
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