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So what's the whole point of a PI top end? I have been under the impression these last 5-ish years (of the 7 I've been a member) that a PI top end essentially nets you a Mustang GT (1999 - 2004) engine. And we know that those put out 260HP. Or have I been entirely mistaken all this time?

Or are you talking WHP numbers while everyone else is talking BHP numbers? Because we all know that manufacturers don't put out WHP numbers.
PI “top end” nets you the compression bump. That is all. It doesn’t make the engine equivelant to a 99-04 GT engine because those engines use the same 9.4:1 compression ratio as a stock npi engine. PI engines use deeper dished pistons, while the heads have lower CC combustion chambers, npi pistons use shallower dished pistons with larger CC combustion chambers. PI heads have a more efficient combustion chamber, which is why they don’t tolerate(need) as much timing advance, but this has more to do with emissions in application than performance.

Ford has published horsepower numbers for PI 4.6s as low as 225 and as high as 260 depending on model, take them with a huge grain of salt. Most real world before/after npi-PI dyno numbers start at between 180-190 RWHP and end up at about 210-220RWHP. PI engines vs npi engines with PI cam/intakes are nearly indistinguishable on the graphs.

60 horsepower won’t happen unless someone dynod their car using before RWHP numbers and used the most favorable factory crank numbers for their claims. I vividly recall an issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Ford’s where they did this mental gymnastic.



I guess time will tell. Everyone here knows I'm beefing up my suspension. While eliminating / reducing wheel hop hasn't been my intended goal of my suspension upgrades, it will definitely be a result of it. Worst case scenario will be that I have a set of half-shafts ready to go should I need them.
Well I’ve managed to not break mine yet, and I went a hard year without any wheel hopping preventative measures in my previously worn out IRS with collapsed hardware!

So throw away info from people like Rod (Racecougar) as well? I mean, there are a few people there who everyone looks up to, such as Rod, Ralph, and Woodman, to name a few but still. There's a few people there that I will listen to. Others though, yea, I'll agree with you.
I consider those three TCCoAers first, FBers second, each got their education from here. I’m suggesting if you’re bouncing off ideas between the forum and FB, favor the forum advice 4:1 :)
 

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The Mustangs have a different exhaust and likely a more aggressive tune, and I'm sure here's some number padding going on too so the Mustang's numbers stays on top of the list of cars with the same engine. All the numbers the factory uses are BHP, so if you want to compare those to auto MN12 dyno figures, consider about 14% drivetrain loss in our cars.

Just comparing factory numbers year-to-year, the 96-97 GTs were rated at 215 BHP vs the MN12's 205 - so we can "assume" that 10HP bump comes from the exhaust and tune. In 98 it was upped again to 225 with (presumably) tune and exhaust changes (I have no idea what they did in 98 - Matt?), then for 99-04 we get to 260 with the PI cams and intake. But then we look at other cars with the same year PI engines, e.g. the Explorers, which were only rated at 238 HP. 22 HP for exhaust and tune differences???

So, if we are generous and give 15 BHP (13 RWHP based on real world dyno results) to PI cams, 20 BHP to the PI intake (15-20 RWHP based on dyno results - depending on redline) and 20 BHP to a more aggressive tune and exhaust, that's +55 BHP - and could explain the steps to account for the factory rating, while also giving some room (in the tune/exhaust figures) to explain the variance in numbers from chassis to chassis.
 

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I guess that's what happens when I try to make sense from senselessness! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #165
The 03 towncar engine I have is supposedly the strongest version of the PI; from looking at everything, I can't imagine anything that would set it apart.

239 hp (178 kW) is what's listed on Wiki.
 

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Discussion Starter #167
Dang, you're right! (as usual, lol)

260 hp (194 kW)

Lol.

So that means there must be 20+ horsepower locked away in the tune, right? :)

From those numbers, the PI engine has 55 more HP than the poor NPI had.

For some reason, the published Dyno numbers don't seem to support that; stupid Dynos.

:)
 

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My 96 has NPI heads currently. But Im gonna be swapping them to PIs just so I can fit a wider variety of cams. If they were in my budget, Id get TFS heads.
 

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Discussion Starter #170
Ahh; Grasshopper, when you can snatch the pebble from my hand...

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #172
Just when you thought Ford Headlights couldn't get worse:


I wonder if this will end the same way as the wiring issues from using digestable protein in wire insulation?

 

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Discussion Starter #174
Why use something that works when you can push a couple of "Feel Good" buttons, and make a crappy product that requires replacement every few years?

Notice the new modular engines are using "Spray in" cylinder liners, instead of sleeves? :D

They used to do this in dirt bikes; it didn't last anywhere nearly as good as a sleeve.
 

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Discussion Starter #176
Well, It's not like I'm buying new cars, lol.

Since FBW is mandatory now, I have all the cars I'll have.
 

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Maybe give it a chance? Perhaps this will last as long as plastic or glass?
Plastic is **** too. If they’re worried about the environment and sustainability, glass is better and unless shattered will last forever. I put brand new headlights on my Cougar during the big project and they’ve already developed a bit of a yellow tint in two years time, I’m supposed to be optimistic coffee runoff of all things mixed into the same crappy plastic composite is going to not yellow?

I’m not interested anyway in anything in their lineup of ugly crossovers so I guess I shouldn’t care. Just one more thing I can ridicule Mach Es for.
 

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Discussion Starter #179
Sucks to be a UPS driver today...



abcnews.go.com


4 killed in shootout following theft of UPS truck in Florida: Police
The driver of the UPS truck was among those killed.

abcnews.go.com
abcnews.go.com




I see they've blurred all the footage now, but as the shootout was happening, the gunman apparently pulled the ups driver across in front of him, as a human shield.
You could see the brown outfitted driver being dragged headfirst down the steps by the shooter, as the driver collapsed under the barrage of gunfire.
That's why there's a huge blurred spot across the whole thing now, on all the video; you could see him get shot multiple times, and die in the video. Blood was pouring off the stairs where he was laying.

You could see a Large number of rounds hitting the truck, the shooter, and the ups driver.
The shooter's gun was across and above the driver; the cops shot the driver at least 10 times, by my count.

There was a huge pool of blood on the pavement, with more draining out of the truck.

CNN carried it live, and unedited.

Kill 'em all, God knows his own, I guess.

Damndest thing I've ever seen; the cops seemed to me to have no interest in the safety of the bystanders, or the driver; they were using the adjacent vehicles as cover, and shooting through them at times.

I was watching the political stuff today, then that hit.

Protecting the innocent was not on the menu today. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #180
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