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Discussion Starter #1
I have the complete wiring harness for a 2000 Mustang GT, including EEC (and the power amp for the radio). I was wondering whether it would be possible to switch my 97 T-bird to coil over. :)
 

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dont do it! they are a headache and go bad all the time!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
OK, just wondered if there would be a benefit as there wouldn't be the need to transfer the high voltage over plug wires. If there is no benefit, why would Ford have gone to this system in the first place?:confused:
 

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If you don’t mind spending the time to make it work correctly, there are benefits to it
especially if you are going to use them with more esoteric power adders (i.e. sc which you already have).

Timing will be more accurate. I know a few people with them on their mercs and
haven’t had any problems with them.
 

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tbirdbrain,

"there are benefits to it
especially if you are going to use them with more esoteric power adders (i.e. sc which you already have)."

Back up that statement with facts! There is no benefit to switching from conventional DIS ignitions to coil-on-plug set-ups. Besides his EEC wouldn't support it. Ford switched to coil-on-plug back in '96 for the Taurus SHO. The Crown Vic's switched over in 1998 and the Mustang in 1999. It was to eliminate bad plug wires and the need for a "tune-up" more often.

Why, would the spark be hotter than a coil pack and spark plug wire type ignition? I see Nascar guys running 700-800 HP engines and no coil-on-plug (COP) ignitions at all. I run an AED kit just like Bigbird does. I see 10 psi of boost and made 325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE). I used the factory coil packs, 9mm FRPP wires and AGSF-12 FM1 plugs (gapped at 0.038"). The car ran fine and fired the spark even under boosted conditions where cylinder pressures are extrememly high.

"Timing will be more accurate"

Timing would be more accurate? Is that a fact, or did you make that up in hopes that we would believe you? Show me proof that two similar cars running the same tune and one has COP igniton and the other DIS/E-DIS...that the COP has more accurate timing. I haven't seen any of the new COP Mustangs to be better off in the ignition department naturally aspirated or when boost is throw in. The only igniton that needs to be upgraded is the '96-'97 4.6L T-Birds/Cougars since they went with the E-DIS type set-up inside the EEC-V. The '94-'95 cars had the DIS module on the passenger side shock tower and those types prove to be able to handle more cylinder pressures.

A-Train
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A-Train, this is what led me to want to explore the COP, plus the fact that I have the whole wiring harness and EEC from the 2000 GT.

COIL-ON-PLUG IGNITION SYSTEMS

By Larry Carley, Copyright 2000 CarleySoftware.com

First it was the distributor that vanished. Now plug wires are starting to disappear. What’s next, the spark plugs? The answer is yes, but that won’t happen until direct fuel injection systems that combine the injector and spark plug into one assembly start appearing in a few years. In the meantime, you’ll have to learn how to diagnose and service the current generation of coil-on-plug (COP) ignition systems.

Spark plugs wires are going away for the same reason that distributors went away. Vehicle manufacturers want to reduce costs and improve ignition performance and reliability. Plug wires are an assembly line nuisance, and are often the weak link in today’s distributorless ignition systems. The plug wires must carry anywhere from 5,000 up to 40,000 or more volts to fire the plugs. This requires heavy insulation plus the ability to suppress electromagnetic interference (EMI). The wires must also be coated with a tough outer jacket to withstand high temperatures in the engine compartment and chemical attack.

As reliable as today’s plug wires are, there is always the potential for trouble. Even the toughest insulation can burn if a wire rubs up against a hot exhaust manifold. The connection inside the spark plug boot between the wire and plug terminal can also be damaged if someone jerks on the wire to remove the boot when changing sparkplugs. Plug wires can also radiate magnetic fields that may affect nearby sensor wires or other electronic circuits.

Attaching the ignition coils directly to the spark plugs eliminates the need for separate high voltage wires along with their potential for trouble. Eliminating the individual plug wires also eliminates the need for wire looms and heat shields. That’s why coil-on-plug ignition systems are being used on a growing number of late model engines.

WHY COP?

Getting rid of the plug wires not only saves money, it also improves the durability of the ignition system. No high voltage wires means no voltage leaks and no misfires due to "bad" plug wires. Using individual coils for each spark plug also means the coils have more time between each firing. Increasing the "coil saturation" time (the time the voltage to the coil is on to build up its magnetic field) increases the coil’s output voltage at high rpm when misfire is most apt to occur under load.

Chrysler says its COP ignition system on its LHS and 300M engines delivers 28% more spark energy than earlier ignition systems. This improves combustion and reduces the risk of misfire with lean fuel mixtures (lean mixtures require more voltage to ignite reliably).

COP ignition systems are mostly being used on new engine designs, so if you haven’t seen one yet you soon will. On most, the plugs and coils are located on top of the cylinder head for easy mounting of the coils. A topside location is best because it keeps the coils away from the heat of the exhaust. This is the type of configuration Chrysler uses on its late model 2.7L, 3.2L and 3.5L engines in the Chrysler Intrepid, LHS and 300M models.

Some other applications with COP ignitions include General Motor’s "Integrated Direct Ignition" (IDI) found on the 1988 through 1995 2.3L Quad Four engine, and the 1996 and newer 2.4L engine single overhead cam engine that replaced the Quad Four, 1997 and newer Cadillac Catera 3.0L, 1998 and up Lincoln Town Car 4.6L, 1996 and up Ford Taurus 3.4L, and many import nameplates including late model Acura, Honda, Infiniti, Isuzu, Lexus, Nissan, Saab and Toyota.

Many engines cannot be equipped with COP ignitions because the location of the spark plugs doesn’t leave enough room to mount individual coils over the plugs, or the plugs are too close to the exhaust manifold.

For example, on the current "Gen III" small block V8 in Corvette, Camaro and Firebird, the spark plugs are located on the side of the cylinder heads and surrounded by the exhaust manifolds. There’s no room to mount the coils directly on the plugs, so GM’s engineers put the coils on the valve covers and connected each coil to its spark plug with a short wire.
 

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While all that may be true, it is general at best...the only real specific example is the Chrysler. In this specific application, the 4.6, as A-Train said the DIS is definitely more than capable for you :cool:
 

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what to ask a ford parts guy, what does he sell the most of? cop coils and dpfe egr sensors! and superduty front ends parts! wires are a very reliable and relativly cheap maint. item. from what i see at work with them, i see them going bad every milage interval, including a 2004 f150 that only had 400 miles on it. had a customer last week that had to replace all ten in his fsd. and they are not cheap to replace either.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK. So the consensus is COP bad DIS is good. Gotcha! :D
 

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Yeah, let me get my check book and buy a 2000 GT EEC and the wiring harness and install it. I like what I have. It just seems simple to me. I look at my in-laws '03 GT and think, "whoa, just more to go wrong somewhere down the line." It looks neat under the hood without the wires and coils, but I's stick to the "cheaper" DIS my '95 has.

Clay
 

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A-Train said:
tbirdbrain,

The only igniton that needs to be upgraded is the '96-'97 4.6L T-Birds/Cougars since they went with the E-DIS type set-up inside the EEC-V.A-Train
I've never heard this before. I would like to know what I need to do to ugrade the '96 4.6l setup then. Can someone please help me out in the explanation of this? Thanks.
 

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BGsTBird said:


I've never heard this before. I would like to know what I need to do to ugrade the '96 4.6l setup then. Can someone please help me out in the explanation of this? Thanks.
second.
 
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