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Meanwhile .... It took 16 days to get from 3 million to 4 million cases in the US, and Florida tops 400,000. At this rate this fall and winter is going to be hell.

Anybody care to venture if, by chance, this spike and the 4th of July gatherings are related? I put the odds on at 0 to 1

Other contributing factors:
  • Disregard for social distancing
  • Refusal to wear and/or properly wear masks
  • Politicization of the pandemic
  • A mis-matched hodge podge of incoherent/inconsistent national policy
  • Failure to adhere to (original, uncompromised) CDC guidelines
 

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Q: For those of you with small kids who are NOT already homeschooling (aka Lenise), what are your plans for this fall?
  • SF is stuck on the CA's monitored counties watch list and I'm not hopeful we will reduce our infections to a level where schools will be allowed to open (public or private) even if the schools have the room and staff to operate at a reduced headcount.
  • My plan for socialization is to find maybe one other family going into the same kindergarten and hire an adult and/or split the monitoring/educational duties. I KNOW I'm not cut out for that kind of teaching especially while i'm trying to work during the day.
 

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Ralph, I'm glad you're getting over your COVID situation. I hope your stepson gets through it.

Lenise, sucks your family is so "well informed". I hope they see the benefits of mask wearing, hopefully before it's too late.

TM, I've been following the numbers as well. I predict that these numbers will begin to plateau now during summer and start to taper downwards and everyone will be like, "we're recovering, let's open everything again!" Then it'll be Labor Day and the numbers will begin to trend upwards about two weeks later. 4M cases (+1M in 16 days) is now 1.21% of our population. Of those 4M infected, there's 145k deaths, or 3.5% death rate. IMO, these are the two numbers that are the reason for anti-maskers. It's an overall "low", to date, infection rate (compared to say H1N1 of 2009, ~65M infected) and the total number of deaths isn't "high" (compared to say 2014 Ebola Virus outbreak ~50% death rate).

My kids' school district sent out emails today stating that they will continue distance learning for the 20-21 school year. My wife just started a new position at her medical center that is day shifts, 8am - 5pm, from her previous position if swing shift, 2:30pm - 11:30pm. She may have to leave her position if our kids' daycare won't open during the school year. She can't just transfer to another position because of how her company policies work. She has to wait 1yr from when she started this new position....so a year from 3 weeks ago. If that happens, it will hurt us financially. Well, until savings runs out at least.

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Discussion Starter #564
Q: For those of you with small kids who are NOT already homeschooling (aka Lenise), what are your plans for this fall?
  • SF is stuck on the CA's monitored counties watch list and I'm not hopeful we will reduce our infections to a level where schools will be allowed to open (public or private) even if the schools have the room and staff to operate at a reduced headcount.
  • My plan for socialization is to find maybe one other family going into the same kindergarten and hire an adult and/or split the monitoring/educational duties. I KNOW I'm not cut out for that kind of teaching especially while i'm trying to work during the day.
Your plan sounds like a good solution for you.

My wife doesn't work and is a full-time-mother so she's available to assist with his remote learning.

Our son's school (a charter school here in North Carolina) has announced that they will continue remote learning this fall with a *Possibility of returning to in person learning on a limited basis. I.E. rotating students on a 2/3 3/2 days a week cycle or some variation of that. Continued remote learning is always optional to families. There are just so many variables to work through I don't envy them the task.

His school held a Zoom conference yesterday and indicated that they've been working very hard all summer to develop a more coherent and effective remote learning plan than what they had to quickly improvise in the spring. IMHO the school staff and management have done an outstanding job handling the crisis. The school administrator said that many of the teachers in frustration approached him and said in essence "I didn't sign up for this!" The stress and pressure on them is hard to imagine. I really appreciate the hard work that they're putting into putting together remote lessons for this school year.
 
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About half my schools have published (or provided to us) their tentative reopening plans, with the rest expected in the next week or so. Most are having students in buildings only 2 or 3 days a week (at most), with distance learning the other days. There are a couple that are planning to let parents choose to send their kids in or do 100% distance learning. I can think of only a couple who are hoping to do "normal" with things as they are now, but even then they have plans to do a hybrid/split week like the others if things get even worse (isn't it bad enough?). Classrooms are set up with 1/3 to 1/2 the normal number of desks, and we've been setting up facial recognition/thermal imaging cameras like crazy at entry points. The same goes for videoconferencing equipment in classrooms.

We've had to adapt our support model as well to ensure staff are equipped to deliver this, and that we are able to support them remotely. It wasn't a very difficult move for us since we already do a portion of our work remotely, but it was a shift for some of the technicians since their roles previously were 100% onsite support.

None of us signed up for this. But we all have to adapt.
 

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I can't imagine what I'd have done if my kiddos were younger. It's not a great time to be a single parent, especially. I'm grateful to be working as usual and that we bought our house as essentially a single-income family, which makes getting by on child support and a part-time job possible, if not especially comfortable! Lots of people are in really tough circumstances ☹
 

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Your plan sounds like a good solution for you.

My wife doesn't work and is a full-time-mother so she's available to assist with his remote learning.

Our son's school (a charter school here in North Carolina) has announced that they will continue remote learning this fall with a *Possibility of returning to in person learning on a limited basis. I.E. rotating students on a 2/3 3/2 days a week cycle or some variation of that. Continued remote learning is always optional to families. There are just so many variables to work through I don't envy them the task.

His school held a Zoom conference yesterday and indicated that they've been working very hard all summer to develop a more coherent and effective remote learning plan than what they had to quickly improvise in the spring. IMHO the school staff and management have done an outstanding job handling the crisis. The school administrator said that many of the teachers in frustration approached him and said in essence "I didn't sign up for this!" The stress and pressure on them is hard to imagine. I really appreciate the hard work that they're putting into putting together remote lessons for this school year.
Beside the obvious "someone should be in charge federally and lead a proper response to the pandemic instead of treating it like a series of photo-ops and/or a PR problem", the ONE thing I wish society would address better is the plight of families with two working parents at all income levels. In high COL areas like the Bay Area, I know 3-4x more dual income vs. single income families; it's just what you need to survive here. My wife and I are lucky that getting additional help is an option; others don't have this option. "Forcing schools to open" (which I think they actually backed away from late this week) is not actually a solution, it's just a guy grasping at "what is the easiest thing I can try to command/demand without considering the implications.

I'm not exactly excited about burning this additional cash but I'm glad we have the option and the alternative (aka one of us not working), is an even worse choice from a financial and mental health position (it's not like my wife or I have early childhood education backgrounds). If my MIL, who is a retired schoolteacher, lived closer, we might have different ideas but that's not an option available to us.
 

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Well I, for one, am glad the response isn't a federal mandate. So many rural counties are at an extremely low risk that it doesn't make sense to restrict them the way large cities have been restricted.

Here in between the NC Research Triangle Park and the Triad, almost everybody I know works full-time, small children at home or not. I definitely feel for those families, but what I'm even more concerned about are the single parent households. Thankfully my kids are older. I don't know what I'd do if they were very young. There are some very thorny issues and no obvious solutions.
 

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Well I, for one, am glad the response isn't a federal mandate. So many rural counties are at an extremely low risk that it doesn't make sense to restrict them the way large cities have been restricted.

Here in between the NC Research Triangle Park and the Triad, almost everybody I know works full-time, small children at home or not. I definitely feel for those families, but what I'm even more concerned about are the single parent households. Thankfully my kids are older. I don't know what I'd do if they were very young. There are some very thorny issues and no obvious solutions.

COVID is everywhere. The illusion that rural America is immune is a lie that those who live there tell themselves. Extremely low risk is still a risk and once the virus is established it spreads like wildfire among those not taking preventative measures.

Yes, I understand remote learning is a serious burden on many. But throwing caution to the wind and acting like this pandemic doesn't exist just to get people back to work and the kids out of the house isn't the answer either. They may not get seriously sick but for sure they'll spread the virus among each other and bring it home to you.

Have any of you been following what's going on in Florida? Teachers are quitting and taking retirement left and right rather than go back to school. There are lawyers in FL that are offering gratis (free) living will and estate planning to teachers. Let that sink in for a minute. Lawyers, in Florida, are offering - for free - living will and estate planning to teachers.

 

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Does anyone here want to explain to me how my wife and I, both essential workers, one who has to be there to keep shipping the **it you're ordering online so it gets to you "in time" and I, who is working 70+ hours a week to keep store shelves stocked because you simply can't stop consuming anything other than water, are supposed to "home school our children"? Neither of us can stop working long hours until those of you at home ACTUALLY STAY HOME AND LEARN TO LIVE OFF WHAT YOU ALL READY HAVE. THEN we can home school our kids. I love how those of you who have not been outside in dang near 5 months have actual opinions based on C*ap you've learned via "news" channels. I'm sorry but I've been out in this all year and exponentially more since March 12, same as my wife. I have a hard time taking anybody who's been holed up like a bl+6H for the last few months seriously.

Now more seriously my 95 lx is heading to the scrap yard in a couple more weeks when day care prices are set to jump. I have to pay other people to watch my kids because we have work to do while you don't. if anyone wants this car for parts, it runs just fine, plenty of good pieces to pick off of it, ill give it up cheap if you can come haul it off.
 

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Nobody's immune. It's about cost vs benefit. The lower the risk, the less benefit to keeping people at home. To treat areas with almost no exposure and very low potential for transmission the same as Houston or New York City doesn't make sense.

In my Zip code, which is a bedroom community for two large metropolitan areas, and sees a lot of back and forth traffic between Raleigh/Durham and Greensboro/Winston-Salem, the case rate is approaching 1%. The interstate goes through my town, so there was no question whether we would be exposed- it was only a question of time. However, even here, the risk of exposure is small. It's not lurking in every corner. So we cover our faces and try to gather outdoors if we gather. Of course it would have been worse without these precautions being taken, but so far we are far from being over run by the virus. We have no deaths reported in our ZIP, which is certainly a mercy. COVID has killed off a number of businesses, however.

Yes, there is always the potential for an isolated rural outbreak, since it only takes one carrier, but how many people are you going to put out of work for how long in communities that have a tiny risk of exposure that can be managed with face coverings, hand washing, and keeping your distance? I don't have any answers, but I don't think one size fits all.

Does anyone here want to explain to me how my wife and I, both essential workers, one who has to be there to keep shipping the **it you're ordering online so it gets to you "in time" and I, who is working 70+ hours a week to keep store shelves stocked because you simply can't stop consuming anything other than water, are supposed to "home school our children"? Neither of us can stop working long hours until those of you at home ACTUALLY STAY HOME AND LEARN TO LIVE OFF WHAT YOU ALL READY HAVE. THEN we can home school our kids. I love how those of you who have not been outside in dang near 5 months have actual opinions based on C*ap you've learned via "news" channels. I'm sorry but I've been out in this all year and exponentially more since March 12, same as my wife. I have a hard time taking anybody who's been holed up like a bl+6H for the last few months seriously.

Now more seriously my 95 lx is heading to the scrap yard in a couple more weeks when day care prices are set to jump. I have to pay other people to watch my kids because we have work to do while you don't. if anyone wants this car for parts, it runs just fine, plenty of good pieces to pick off of it, ill give it up cheap if you can come haul it off.
I'm sorry about your Bird. I'm an essential worker too, though thankfully we have very little exposure in the warehouse/office. I wish there were answers to how to do this right, but I sure don't have them. There are all kinds of families in bad situations. There are abused/neglected children who have no escape, single parents who have to work and nobody to help with the housework or childcare, people who've been out of work and unable to earn their usual income.

I feel like a lot of the policies are set by upper middle class people with tech jobs who can work from home with minimal disruption. The answers seem obvious to them, but it's a lot harder for a lot of others who have to adjust to having the rug pulled out from under them. I just wish people weren't so harsh, but I'm kind of a sap 🤷
 

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Discussion Starter #572 (Edited)
Does anyone here want to explain to me how my wife and I, both essential workers, one who has to be there to keep shipping the **it you're ordering online so it gets to you "in time" and I, who is working 70+ hours a week to keep store shelves stocked because you simply can't stop consuming anything other than water, are supposed to "home school our children"? Neither of us can stop working long hours until those of you at home ACTUALLY STAY HOME AND LEARN TO LIVE OFF WHAT YOU ALL READY HAVE. THEN we can home school our kids. I love how those of you who have not been outside in dang near 5 months have actual opinions based on C*ap you've learned via "news" channels. I'm sorry but I've been out in this all year and exponentially more since March 12, same as my wife. I have a hard time taking anybody who's been holed up like a bl+6H for the last few months seriously.

Now more seriously my 95 lx is heading to the scrap yard in a couple more weeks when day care prices are set to jump. I have to pay other people to watch my kids because we have work to do while you don't. if anyone wants this car for parts, it runs just fine, plenty of good pieces to pick off of it, ill give it up cheap if you can come haul it off.
I understand your frustration. There are no good answers. Everyone is going to have to figure out what works best for them. Forcing every school to reopen by threatening to withhold funding is straight up coercion. Fortunately, coercion aside, the decision as to how they proceed to reopen this fall is up to the various states and school districts.

Assuming you're the only essential worker here is very presumptive. Many of us here are continuing to work. I worked - and traveled - including flying - through the start of this pandemic in March and April. I'm currently working at our shop in Charlotte and I will be back on the road again in September. Believe me, I'm very nervous about going back on the road this fall as the virus is much more widely spread now than it was back in the spring.

Now, the most important point I want to make is, provided that your instrument cluster surround is in decent shape I'd be interested in buying it from you.

Please start a part-out sale thread with pictures of the car so that we can see what condition the car and parts on it are in. Thanks.
 
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The interstate goes through my town, so there was no question whether we would be exposed- it was only a question of time.
My paranoia has risen to the point that I think about where I'm getting gas from. There is a station right off I-40 that if I am near, I skip and drive the extra 3 miles into downtown Cary to get gas. A LOT of out of state plates at a freeway gas station from all parts of the country.

Al
 

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Does anyone here want to explain to me how my wife and I, both essential workers, one who has to be there to keep shipping the **it you're ordering online so it gets to you "in time" and I, who is working 70+ hours a week to keep store shelves stocked because you simply can't stop consuming anything other than water, are supposed to "home school our children"? Neither of us can stop working long hours until those of you at home ACTUALLY STAY HOME AND LEARN TO LIVE OFF WHAT YOU ALL READY HAVE. THEN we can home school our kids. I love how those of you who have not been outside in dang near 5 months have actual opinions based on C*ap you've learned via "news" channels. I'm sorry but I've been out in this all year and exponentially more since March 12, same as my wife. I have a hard time taking anybody who's been holed up like a bl+6H for the last few months seriously.

Now more seriously my 95 lx is heading to the scrap yard in a couple more weeks when day care prices are set to jump. I have to pay other people to watch my kids because we have work to do while you don't. if anyone wants this car for parts, it runs just fine, plenty of good pieces to pick off of it, ill give it up cheap if you can come haul it off.
My wife and I are essential workers. My wife works medical industry and has seen quite a number of COVID-19 positive patients herself. In fact, she even saw a patient die of COVID-19 complications just two (maybe three now) weeks ago. It was definitely a traumatic experience for her.

I myself have to travel to all of my organization's offices to perform my tasks. At this point in time, there have been at least 1 COVID-19 case in each of these offices and 1 death at one of the offices. My home office has had 3 COVID-19 cases, but luckily no deaths.

I have kids as well. Like you, I don't have the luxury to work from home and be able to "homeschool" my kids. My wife and I were talking about homeschooling our kids before all this pandemic stuff started happening, but once this happened, we quickly realized that homeschooling our kids wasn't realistic. My wife and I know that my kids' have suffered academically.

That said, I wouldn't want my kids' school to reopen sooner than necessary in order to help fight this thing. Yes, I know kids aren't very likely to catch COVID-19, but if they do, they are more likely to transmit it to other people, namely grandparents; you know, the most vulnerable population for COVID-19. My mom is super high risk as she is immuno-compromized already due to a whole slew of health issues. What if, for example, someone like my mom gets a visit / goes to visit the grandkids who, unknowingly, have COVID-19 transmit it to the grandparent(s) and the grandparent(s) end up dying because of the grandkid. How would you feel? Fun fact about the county in which I work: the majority of COVID-19 cases come from visiting family / friends at their home, not public gatherings.


Anyway, if kids go back to school prematurely, they infection rate for COVID-19 will only go up. Also, why would you NOT want to send your kids to school if they're not vaccinated but want to send your kids to school if there is no vaccine (or solid treatment regime) for a considerably deadly (or otherwise life affecting) illness?

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Does anyone here want to explain to me how my wife and I, both essential workers, one who has to be there to keep shipping the **it you're ordering online so it gets to you "in time" and I, who is working 70+ hours a week to keep store shelves stocked because you simply can't stop consuming anything other than water, are supposed to "home school our children"? Neither of us can stop working long hours until those of you at home ACTUALLY STAY HOME AND LEARN TO LIVE OFF WHAT YOU ALL READY HAVE. THEN we can home school our kids. I love how those of you who have not been outside in dang near 5 months have actual opinions based on C*ap you've learned via "news" channels. I'm sorry but I've been out in this all year and exponentially more since March 12, same as my wife. I have a hard time taking anybody who's been holed up like a bl+6H for the last few months seriously.

Now more seriously my 95 lx is heading to the scrap yard in a couple more weeks when day care prices are set to jump. I have to pay other people to watch my kids because we have work to do while you don't. if anyone wants this car for parts, it runs just fine, plenty of good pieces to pick off of it, ill give it up cheap if you can come haul it off.
Im not sure i get your anger here.
1)
- Your rant seems to be that is that increased online consumption, which requires you to work longer hours, is preventing you from homeschooling?
I would argue that anyone still buying **** that you are paid to pick and ship keeps the economy moving and people employed. Its a safer alternative for everyone involved than everyone trying to go back to business as usual.

Q: What alternative would you prefer?
  • People going out more and exposing themselves?
  • People consuming less and therefore you will get less hours? Are you NOT able to decline overtime? If so, why is your anger not with your employer vs the consumers?
  • The government offering more assistance? Would you prefer cash, leadership in organizing smaller groups, or simply forcing retail/schools to open?
2) You are deriding people who have the means/occupation to stay home as little bitches not worthy of an opinion of whats going on in the world. If you were working in hospitals actually dealing with patients, I would say your experience carries more weight as first hand experience but again, it's purely anecdotal. I would argue that those of us who don't go out on a regular basis see more obvious changes than you since you are going about your own life of the same workplace, the same co-workers, and along the same commute routes daily.

3) You also seem to have a bias against "news channels". IMO, the rise of a lot of dubious news sources (ex: One America Network), has made a lot more people skeptical about the more legitimate sources. Clearly, FB, Twitter, and other companies have made millions off of this engagement and spread of false information. Sure, you might have more anecdotal data but why the skepticism on actual scientific research conducted by people with even more education than both of us? By your own admission, you work too much to have the time to curate the information available (sifting for peanuts from the elephant ****). If so, why deride those who choose to try and evaluate the sources and post them here for others?

---
IMO, your anger seems misplaced and is a classic example of folks in power drumming up class warfare so we ignore the real criminals in society: those at the top that are stealing millions and have enriched themselves as the expense of the rest of us. Why are you more upset with the avg middle class person, who is also struggling with this pandemic BS, than you are with those who are currently in power but NOT doing anything to help us?
 

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Anyway, if kids go back to school prematurely, they infection rate for COVID-19 will only go up. Also, why would you NOT want to send your kids to school if they're not vaccinated but want to send your kids to school if there is no vaccine (or solid treatment regime) for a considerably deadly (or otherwise life affecting) illness?

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All of my Israeli coworkers have stated that pushin to open schools back up there is universally regarded as a mistake

In case you were wondering, Haaretz is one of the biggeest national newspapers in IL founded back when it was British Palestine. Along with the Jerusalem Times, its one of the two you would expect to get at your hotel every morning. Half of it is domestic/regionally focused and the other half is often is "what are the American's up up to and what do they think of us". Therefore, Haaretz writing an article about what americans can learn from us is NOT completely unexpected.
 

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My paranoia has risen to the point that I think about where I'm getting gas from. There is a station right off I-40 that if I am near, I skip and drive the extra 3 miles into downtown Cary to get gas. A LOT of out of state plates at a freeway gas station from all parts of the country.

Al
From what I've read, there's very little exposure from shared surfaces (not saying we ought to be licking the pump handle... Lol). I think a gas station is relatively safe (Cary, though .. 😶😉), even if you go inside, as long as you aren't standing near to anyone for a long period of time. I was tempted to worry about that on my trip to see family, but I'm sure the biggest risk BY FAR was time spent with them.

This is why kids in school is a legitimate concern. They're indoors with the same people for hours. It's a thorny issue.
 

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As far as returning to school goes, my wife has a few ideas that, IMO, are brilliant ideas for a safe(er) return to school:

1. Setup viral capturing HEPA filters in each room
2. Have viral capable HEPA filter integrated into the HVAC system (separate from previous point)
3. Setup low dosage UV ceiling lights (replacing the existing lights)
4. Continue to use face coverings and washing hands (of course!)

How these ideas would be paid for for each and every single school and classroom across the country, IDK. These likely won't even be discussed with anyone anywhere that has any pull on getting any of the first 3 ideas done.

Her and I both recognize that these may not be 100% but they are definitely better than some of the things that we've seen online (barriers barely taller than the desks, individual barriers compartmentalizing each kid, square drawn on ground, etc.).

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I'm not sure i get your anger here.
1)
- Your rant seems to be that is that increased online consumption, which requires you to work longer hours, is preventing you from homeschooling?
I would argue that anyone still buying **** that you are paid to pick and ship keeps the economy moving and people employed. Its a safer alternative for everyone involved than everyone trying to go back to business as usual.

Q: What alternative would you prefer?
  • People going out more and exposing themselves?
  • People consuming less and therefore you will get less hours? Are you NOT able to decline overtime? If so, why is your anger not with your employer vs the consumers?
  • The government offering more assistance? Would you prefer cash, leadership in organizing smaller groups, or simply forcing retail/schools to open?
2) You are deriding people who have the means/occupation to stay home as little bitches not worthy of an opinion of whats going on in the world. If you were working in hospitals actually dealing with patients, I would say your experience carries more weight as first hand experience but again, it's purely anecdotal. I would argue that those of us who don't go out on a regular basis see more obvious changes than you since you are going about your own life of the same workplace, the same co-workers, and along the same commute routes daily.

3) You also seem to have a bias against "news channels". IMO, the rise of a lot of dubious news sources (ex: One America Network), has made a lot more people skeptical about the more legitimate sources. Clearly, FB, Twitter, and other companies have made millions off of this engagement and spread of false information. Sure, you might have more anecdotal data but why the skepticism on actual scientific research conducted by people with even more education than both of us? By your own admission, you work too much to have the time to curate the information available (sifting for peanuts from the elephant ****). If so, why deride those who choose to try and evaluate the sources and post them here for others?

---
IMO, your anger seems misplaced and is a classic example of folks in power drumming up class warfare so we ignore the real criminals in society: those at the top that are stealing millions and have enriched themselves as the expense of the rest of us. Why are you more upset with the avg middle class person, who is also struggling with this pandemic BS, than you are with those who are currently in power but NOT doing anything to help us?
3a) I could write a book on the manufactured bias against the news media. In short, I'll just leave this quote here.

“… Getting people to doubt the news is a goal of authoritarian governments. Doubt is a very insidious form of disinformation and it seems that there is an awful lot of it. But facts are facts and there are no such things as "alternate facts". There may be alternate interpretations, but that comes from an accepted body of established facts. We aren't even at that level anymore.”

Anyway, well said Gunn.
 
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MSN often uses twitter as a source. It’s not that wild to distrust for profit entertainment shows on cable.

As for manufactured bias fueling my doubt, well, I said this 6 years ago.


“Fear mongering is reason #5765 I don't care about the news.

And don't yall worry, I'm well aware of the goings on in the world without paying a lick of attention to any of it, because the majority of people seem perfectly capable of shoving it in my face on a daily basis anyway, so I don't need to invade the last morsel of my personal space with conspiracy/witch hunt/sky is falling pandemonium propagated by failed politicians, pundits and pseudo journalists on monopolized ratings/traffic whore media machines.”


From this thread(kind of fun to see those poll results from today’s vantage, ISIS, who?🤣) USA Now.
 
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