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Transmission unawares could not and should not be prosecuted. On that we agree. You cannot go back to patient zero as there's no clear data on a path back with absolute certainty.

However, there are scumbags out there who were given positive test results. THEY KNEW and still went out. Its encouraging to hear that you see some liability on their part. I wish we would see real penalties here.

IMO, the real wobbler in my mind are the folks who have confirmed exposure to someone Covid positive and knowingly exposed others since they themselves were not tested and they don't show symptoms.
Here's a good example:

Now, I'm not saying that the family members of someone who are covid positive shouldn't go to the store -esp if they cannot afford delivery - but leaving town and dining out is just a big FU to society.


The only other don't ask don't tell situation I'm in the fence about is one I discussed with a doctor buddy this morning. If every doctor/nurse was tested and all positive cases resulted in pulling those staff, we might end up hitting a healthcare shortage sooner than expected. Apparently his system not alone in only testing staff if they show symptoms... Another friend confirmed this is true in my neck of the woods as well.
Honestly if I were dictator I would punish people for spreading the regular old cold and flu, I hate people with initiative who insist on “powering through” and people who reward that behavior... but that’s why I’m not in power 😈

The problem here comes with what the penalty is in a civilized fair society. Most people will contract covid and it hits them like a cold or flu, sometimes it hits them so bad they will be saddled with longterm health issues and possibly die, sometimes they didn’t even realize they had it. How can the punishment be made to fit the crime? Especially when it’s virtually impossible to specifically link a specific spreader to someone’s specific transmission?

Care to defend them?
Hey, just because we disagree on a point doesn’t mean I’m tapped into the mindset of every idiot mishandling this lol

But bear this in mind, I’m pro mask, pro social distancing, pro taking precautions. If I seem resistant to penalty of law with these things, imagine the reaction of the sizable number of people who are anti-all of that. Punishing them won’t change their minds, and that’s what needs to happen.


I understand where you’re going with your analogy Ralph, but regardless let’s not bring abortion into this topic. That’s a hot button like 2A that I firmly believe we’re better off not having here.
 

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Discussion Starter #762
All right. Here's the chance of transmission under various masked scenarios. This is why it's so important for EVERYONE to wear a mask PROPERLY and keep their distance.

39321
 
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Take the first part. What makes you think they're not human. Case Law - Case Law in Nazi Germany was that Jews weren't human. Case Law in the Jim Crow era was that blacks weren't human. You may want a better definition than "Case Law" there.

Second part. By extending that logic, you'd be in favor of unmasked people walking around, since Coronavirus has a close to .1.6% without comorbidities; zooms to 19.5% in the same study if you have heart disease, lung disease, or diabetes. (The latter included almost 50% of the study group were hospitalized. See the popular writeup at WaPo - https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/15/patients-with-underlying-conditions-were-12-times-more-likely-die-covid-19-than-otherwise-healthy-people-cdc-finds/ - or dig out the original CDC paper which is good reading if you have insomnia ...) After all, more people dead == less mouths to feed.

No.

I'm not recommending people walk around maskless. I'm just pointing out it's a logical extension of your statement. Might want to rethink both halves of this one to avoid the logical flaws.

RwP
As far as supporting going maskless as a form of population control, I'm no eugenicist. Just because i believe in abortion doesn't mean I want to take draconian measures at population control (aka remove the ones I deem weaker OR go all Thanos and magic away half of the population randomly). You can believe in the 2nd A (another trigger issue) without believing in the right to RPGs.

I'm going to respect Matt's comments about not digging into abortion or the 2nd A further as clearly we disagree here.

As far as Thanos goes, I never understood how that was a practical solution though - wouldn't the population just climb back to where it was pre Thanos eventually? how does that help anyone?
 

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Positive note: Astrazenica resumed their Phase 3 trials in the UK. India expected to resume their phase 2/3 trials soon
 

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Wow! Now that's how you do it. Talk about giving perspective.

Upon returning to work today I leared that two of the guys that I had been working closely with, and had been going out to lunch with have now gotten COVID as of about two weeks ago and have been home sick. My broken collar bone that took me out of the office five weeks ago was a blessing in disguise.
 
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My broken collar bone that took me out of the office five weeks ago was a blessing in disguise.
Things (good or bad!) happen for a reason Ron! :)

Healing up good?

Joe
 
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Discussion Starter #769
Things (good or bad!) happen for a reason Ron! :)

Healing up good?

Joe
Feeling better. I'm up to about 80% utilization on that side. I just have to take it easy on that side for a few more weeks. They tell me 12 weeks to fully heal and I'm about a third of the way there.
 
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I hope everybody knows, the third best thing right now is testing, second is instant result test, best is vaccine.

Test everyone out there early and often.
 

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Reports like this make me worry about whether or not to send my son back for in person learning even if it is an option.
 

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We are not sending our son back even if it were an option. I would recommend against it.
 
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We are not sending our son back even if it were an option. I would recommend against it.
1) I'm still on the fence. The school is working on a 10:1 student:teacher ratio, each cohort has its own staggered start/stop time, and their own classrooms+materials

2) They do plan to do regular testing and potentially require all incoming F2F students to be tested as well.
I'm a bit skeptical about their testing plans (once every 2 months for faculty/staff only seems like a joke to me) but if this can be upped with pool testing or something like that to include the students, I'd be more gung ho.

3) He's an only child in kindergarten virtually. He got socialization in pre-school but the past 6 months, he's pretty much almost exclusively played with adults; we've only seen his preschool friends outside a handful of times. I'd say that learning socialization skills is as or more important than learning at his age.

4) I joke about FOMO on the stock threads as something to ignore but in this situation, I worry about it for him as well. he's already started with a cohort and a teacher we really like; if the teacher moves to in-person, his primary teacher will revert to a second teacher who will remain virtual (whom he has met in his virtual classes as she assists all three classes in his grade) but it won't be the same.
 

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2) The kids should definitely be tested prior to returning. Once every two months for faculty/staff is a joke and a waste of money. Once a week seems more appropriate.

3/4) Yeah, our son is growing up way to quickly listening to all the "adult talk" around the house. I feel like he's missing out on a very important part of his childhood. It's the price we have to pay to protect him and ourselves. On the bright side I've gotten to spend a lot of time with him that I wouldn't get to otherwise. We've had a great summer. He's been good support for me with my collar bone recovery and other things around the house. He'll recover his social life once he gets back to school. I'm hoping that this school year at home will be the only one he needs to do remotely. I expect by this time next year all this will be behind us.

With your son at a Kindergarten level he'll be just fine. Kids that age are very flexible and resilient.
 

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2) The kids should definitely be tested prior to returning. Once every two months for faculty/staff is a joke and a waste of money. Once a week seems more appropriate.

3/4) Yeah, our son is growing up way to quickly listening to all the "adult talk" around the house. I feel like he's missing out on a very important part of his childhood. It's the price we have to pay to protect him and ourselves. On the bright side I've gotten to spend a lot of time with him that I wouldn't get to otherwise. We've had a great summer. He's been good support for me with my collar bone recovery and other things around the house. He'll recover his social life once he gets back to school. I'm hoping that this school year at home will be the only one he needs to do remotely. I expect by this time next year all this will be behind us.

With your son at a Kindergarten level he'll be just fine. Kids that age are very flexible and resilient.
2) I would like to see if pool testing is possible and brought this up with the administration. They seem honestly quite open to feedback so we'll see.

Right now, you've got to expect the lower school (JK-5) is planning for approximately ~25 tests/mo. If they did pool testing weekly (call it 1 per class plus 1 for the staff/faculty), that'd be approximately 21 per week or 84/mo. That's a good deal higher. Maybe cutting that to once every 2 weeks would be more effective. Or make the pools larger (one per grade).

I have to imagine the costs to do a pool test would be higher (labor to take samples and mix them before running the actual tests) so the cost is likely some multiplier over the individual tests (I think my wife said her company pays ~$150/individual test). Unless costs come down dramatically (clearly it's possible if places like UIUC do testing 2x/week), I'm not sure if that's affordable even for a decently funded private school.

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I've had this discussion with several MD friends and it's quite interesting; they aren't nearly as worried as I am. To be fair, their risk profile is already pretty high (going into hospitals daily and not getting tested unless they fall sick/have a fever) so a kid going into school isn't going to add much more risk for their family. I'm more worried perhaps because the risk profile for me and my son is still fairly low (except my wife who at least gets regular testing).
 

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I guess this is what I have to look forward to! :(

Joe
winter outdoor dining.jpg
 
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The schools here that have done in person learning are not doing a good job of keeping the kids from stumbling over each other in halls etc. Even though hallways are clearly marked for distance and the teachers are trying, it's a lot even for tiny classes. Kids may have masks on but most aren't wearing them properly and are exposing their nose or they are too loosely fitted.

Classrooms are set up appropriately for the most part and some have teachers moving between rooms, rather than the kids.

Some of the schools have IR cameras to measure temperature of all incoming traffic. A few of the models we've deployed even detect the presence of a mask.

Just my observations at this point, having been in about a dozen different schools since they've resumed here. Some are doing a better job than others, and with most classes only having been in session for 1-3 weeks there's a lot of learning and adjusting yet to be done. But there's a pretty clear divide between the schools that are taking it seriously and those that are not.
 

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Interesting. Thanks for sharing Brandon.

Interesting article about the LSU football team that caught my eye tonight. "Not all, but most players have caught it." Player health be damned the revenue ... uh, I mean the game must go on!

 

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A great analysis of the "Heard Immunity" argument.

 
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