TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I'm posting here because, well, most of the recommended headers you guys have listed here for 5.0 Birds are obsolete or no longer produced. I'm halfway through gathering parts for my GT40 build and the only roadblock I'm hitting is this.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Nothing for shorties or is there only really advice for Longtubes?
There are no longer any options that are known to work for shorties beyond doing the steering modification. If you're going to do headers then I don't understand why you wouldn't do long tubes anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,023 Posts
Q: Why go the header route? Have you already built the exhaust from the header flanges back?

There will be minimal improvements if you are keeping your stock exhaust from header flanges downstream.
If not, what's the value for you to go with long tubes vs headers?

Emissions? Any of the header options won't have a CARB sticker. If it just needs to "sniff clean" you can add high flow cats to the long tubes if desired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Q: Why go the header route? Have you already built the exhaust from the header flanges back?

There will be minimal improvements if you are keeping your stock exhaust from header flanges downstream.
If not, what's the value for you to go with long tubes vs headers?

Emissions? Any of the header options won't have a CARB sticker. If it just needs to "sniff clean" you can add high flow cats to the long tubes if desired.
Going for a new X- Pipe back exhaust ending in Glasspaks, on top of that I'm going for these suggested Long Tubes with a couple 2.5in HiFlows to keep it from not passing the scanner test.
 

·
Super Moderator
1997 Thunderbird 4.6, 1998 Mark VIII LSC
Joined
·
9,575 Posts
I may be selling my set of 3/4" SS Kooks for the MN12 chassis soon. I will post a sale ad in the marketplace at that time. They are brand new.
 

·
Super Moderator
1997 Thunderbird 4.6, 1998 Mark VIII LSC
Joined
·
9,575 Posts
I actually had another member PM me not long after I posted that asking for them, and they are on their way to him now. I didn't realize there'd be such a market for them!

However, it looks like they are still available new, if you're willing to deal with Bill Evanoff's shenanigans. I gave up on buying anything else from him after I bought my headers in 2018, despite "not bad" experiences previously with other products of his...


Long version:

An "old time" member here who no longer posts (guitar maestro) was gearing up to produce a batch of MN12 specific long tube headers a number of years ago. After my headswap/build in 2013, I was holding out for him to make me a set instead of buying the Kooks, since I'd have to have my Trubendz exhaust kit modified upon installation either way (and I would rather only do it once). He sold off his set of MAC longtubes that he modified to use as a measuring template for building his headers, but they were sold to another member before I was able to save up the funds. As time went on he became more sparse on the forums with other life projects taking priority, and finally he told me it was not likely he'd ever get any longtubes built.

After that I happened upon SCP again and saw that Bill, who is the exclusive dealer for the MN12 4.6 Kooks, was not going to be ordering any new batches of them - supposedly due to dwindling demand. The price was steep but I needed headers for my combo, and with two sets left I bit the bullet and ordered one.

The first thing Bill did was tell me how much he charged to my card and that he wouldn't be shipping the headers for a week - which was a couple bucks shy of $900. I did the math and worked out that he charged nearly $50 for shipping and even added sales tax to the shipping costs, on top of the merchandise. Aside from the fact that he should have told me what the shipping charges were going to be ahead of just billing me for them, I decided that $50 for shipping them 200 miles was not worth it (I paid $45 this to ship these twice as far via the same carrier to the individual who just bought them from me, with full value insurance, and we all know rates always go up a few percent every year). Resultingly, I told him to NOT ship them, and that I'd make the 3 hour drive to pick them up. Then he sent me a several hundred word essay/sob-story telling me how adding sales tax to shipping was OK, that $50 in shipping charges was very reasonable, that he made a mistake in telling me they wouldn't go out for a week and that they did in fact get shipped that day, and that I needed to remember he had to pay to get them shipped from Kooks to him! At that point I decided I was done dealing with him since he was clearly not going to own up to or attempt to reconcile with me over the fact that he took more sales liberties than he should have - which caused me grief. In the end it wasn't as much about his making profit on the shipping costs as much as it was his rooted defense of his (IMHO flawed) position.

I checked the other day and sure enough, Bill changed his mind on "discontinuing" the headers, and has been ordering them in batches as demand dictates. Of course, with a nominal price increase.

Fast forward to this week, and the owner of the guitar maestro "beta" headers (still never installed or used), another former frequent poster here, PM'd me and asked if I would be interested in buying them from him. Sure enough I was! Once that deal was finalized, I was able to sell the 3/4 Kooks I had been holding onto with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. That all happened in the last few days.

</rant>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I actually had another member PM me not long after I posted that asking for them, and they are on their way to him now. I didn't realize there'd be such a market for them!

However, it looks like they are still available new, if you're willing to deal with Bill Evanoff's shenanigans. I gave up on buying anything else from him after I bought my headers in 2018, despite "not bad" experiences previously with other products of his...


Long version:

An "old time" member here who no longer posts (guitar maestro) was gearing up to produce a batch of MN12 specific long tube headers a number of years ago. After my headswap/build in 2013, I was holding out for him to make me a set instead of buying the Kooks, since I'd have to have my Trubendz exhaust kit modified upon installation either way (and I would rather only do it once). He sold off his set of MAC longtubes that he modified to use as a measuring template for building his headers, but they were sold to another member before I was able to save up the funds. As time went on he became more sparse on the forums with other life projects taking priority, and finally he told me it was not likely he'd ever get any longtubes built.

After that I happened upon SCP again and saw that Bill, who is the exclusive dealer for the MN12 4.6 Kooks, was not going to be ordering any new batches of them - supposedly due to dwindling demand. The price was steep but I needed headers for my combo, and with two sets left I bit the bullet and ordered one.

The first thing Bill did was tell me how much he charged to my card and that he wouldn't be shipping the headers for a week - which was a couple bucks shy of $900. I did the math and worked out that he charged nearly $50 for shipping and even added sales tax to the shipping costs, on top of the merchandise. Aside from the fact that he should have told me what the shipping charges were going to be ahead of just billing me for them, I decided that $50 for shipping them 200 miles was not worth it (I paid $45 this to ship these twice as far via the same carrier to the individual who just bought them from me, with full value insurance, and we all know rates always go up a few percent every year). Resultingly, I told him to NOT ship them, and that I'd make the 3 hour drive to pick them up. Then he sent me a several hundred word essay/sob-story telling me how adding sales tax to shipping was OK, that $50 in shipping charges was very reasonable, that he made a mistake in telling me they wouldn't go out for a week and that they did in fact get shipped that day, and that I needed to remember he had to pay to get them shipped from Kooks to him! At that point I decided I was done dealing with him since he was clearly not going to own up to or attempt to reconcile with me over the fact that he took more sales liberties than he should have - which caused me grief. In the end it wasn't as much about his making profit on the shipping costs as much as it was his rooted defense of his (IMHO flawed) position.

I checked the other day and sure enough, Bill changed his mind on "discontinuing" the headers, and has been ordering them in batches as demand dictates. Of course, with a nominal price increase.

Fast forward to this week, and the owner of the guitar maestro "beta" headers (still never installed or used), another former frequent poster here, PM'd me and asked if I would be interested in buying them from him. Sure enough I was! Once that deal was finalized, I was able to sell the 3/4 Kooks I had been holding onto with a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. That all happened in the last few days.

</rant>
Wow ok lol, thanks for the info! I really don’t want long tubes since it’s just gonna be a street cruiser and I hate the clearance problems but I’m gonna keep an eye out for some shortys but I definitely don’t wanna get cash raped for them lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
There are no longer any options that are known to work for shorties beyond doing the steering modification. If you're going to do headers then I don't understand why you wouldn't do long tubes anyway.
Wow ok lol, thanks for the info! I really don’t want long tubes since it’s just gonna be a street cruiser and I hate the clearance problems but I’m gonna keep an eye out for some shortys but I definitely don’t wanna get cash raped for them lol.
Might want to re-read the post above - it appears the shorties are the ones with the clearance problems, not the long tubes. At least that's the way it reads to me.

And I agree that Bill is a codpiece. Only one transaction to date and he stuck me pretty good on the Tokico Blues. No discount at all when I asked. I do like the shocks though, with the Vogtlands and 1 1/8" rear sway bar, it handles nicely!

Al
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Might want to re-read the post above - it appears the shorties are the ones with the clearance problems, not the long tubes. At least that's the way it reads to me.

And I agree that Bill is a codpiece. Only one transaction to date and he stuck me pretty good on the Tokico Blues. No discount at all when I asked. I do like the shocks though, with the Vogtlands and 1 1/8" rear sway bar, it handles nicely!

Al
Was thinking of clearance issues with removing the starter, ground clearance etc. So are long tubes still available?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
I think this thread has lost track of the original point. This is about headers that will fit a 5.0-based MN12. There were never any Kooks headers made for the application. All shorties require you to relocate the steering shaft. You should generally be able to get long tubes that fit a 89-93 Fox body Mustang with an AOD to fit with some persuasion. Things like changing out the stock rag joint with the Flaming River u-joint are effectively required and putting spacers between the top of the engine mounts and the engine may also be required. The final thing that you will probably need to do to keep from beating on the floor pan is to put spacers between the K member and frame rails.

It is assumed that you are doing this because you have an engine that gets benefits from using long tube headers. Don't do this to a stock engine since the benefits are not there for the amount of work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I think this thread has lost track of the original point. This is about headers that will fit a 5.0-based MN12. There were never any Kooks headers made for the application. All shorties require you to relocate the steering shaft. You should generally be able to get long tubes that fit a 89-93 Fox body Mustang with an AOD to fit with some persuasion. Things like changing out the stock rag joint with the Flaming River u-joint are effectively required and putting spacers between the top of the engine mounts and the engine may also be required. The final thing that you will probably need to do to keep from beating on the floor pan is to put spacers between the K member and frame rails.

It is assumed that you are doing this because you have an engine that gets benefits from using long tube headers. Don't do this to a stock engine since the benefits are not there for the amount of work.
Ok so while I’m not a newbie to turning wrenches as I’m a 30 year auto tech by trade, I am fairly new to the MN12 platform and just wanted a header that’s better than the stock manifold. If they’re obsolete it is what it is and I won’t worry about it as my car is stone stock. Planned on doing some basic bolt on’s but I definitely don’t want to hack the car up. Its a 49k original mile car with zero rust so mods will be basic, computer chip, underdrives, upgraded ignition parts, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
I would spend the "underdrives" money on getting some gear in there. 3.08 gear X 2.40 1st gear = about the same starting line gearing as a 96-97 Bird leaving in 2nd gear.

A 3.73 gear + 2 3/8" Truebendz mandrel bent dual exhaust with H-pipe would wake the car up.

Al
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
I would spend the "underdrives" money on getting some gear in there. 3.08 gear X 2.40 1st gear = about the same starting line gearing as a 96-97 Bird leaving in 2nd gear.

A 3.73 gear + 2 3/8" Truebendz mandrel bent dual exhaust with H-pipe would wake the car up.

Al
I definitely plan on doing gears and more exhaust work soon, just working with my budget. I just think it sucks nobody makes a decent set of short or mid length headers anymore but I’m gonna keep investigating.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top