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Discussion Starter #1
Can anyone please list some places I can get my heads PnP'd?

I know about:

Fox Lake
Steen Racing (doesnt seem bad at 750.00) 190cfm/165cfm @.550

Please add anything to help me out, I know VERY little about Porting Heads and I am looking to get mine done.

What are good flow numbers for intake/exhaust?
I know the .550 has something to do with the cams but I don't really understand it.

Can anyone elaborate?

Please forgive my ignorance, and yes I did :gotsearch


Thanks alot guys

Dave
 

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I know this would be probably too far from you, but I'm going to take my heads to a Place in Sioux City, IA (NW Iowa) called Harry's Heads. They are very good at porting and have done 4.6 heads quite a bit. Top of the line package deal for the highest port/polish job, valve job (3 angle), and port match to PI intake is around $1200.

Also, Renegade is very good as well, about a $2000 job for top of the line. They're in MI if I remember correctly.

The 0.550" is referring to to the lift of the cam at that time. Like the 190 cfm @ 0.550" would be 190 cubic feet/minute at 0.55" of lift for the intake. Obviously, the heads will flow less at less lift. ie maybe 100 cfm @ 0.20" or something like that. It's measured on a flow bench to get those #'s.

Hope this helps. I may be a little off on the cfm # lift but I'm pretty sure that's right.

Joe
 

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Baddest N/A NPI in Canada
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Sure Foxlake and Steen APPEAR to be cheaper. There will be reassembly costs and clean up costs. If they do it properly and use new parts like Renegade does, then the heads will cost about the same as Renegade!
 

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The best thing you could do would be to call them and ask them for a price break down of everything. That way you know what you would be paying for, not just guessing off the web site (Fox Lake). I know I had checked it out on the web and it seemed pretty decent but then in the fine print I believe, there were some reassembly costs also.

When I called Harry's I asked them about any assembly costs, he told me that the assemble cost is factored in with the vavle job, so there's no hidden costs. I'm going to call them at least two more times before I give them my heads to work so I know there won't be any hidden costs that I need to come up with some cash quickly, since this is a pretty big payment to drop all at once.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I actually just called Jason @Steen Racing, They have the 96-98 NPI heads with Stage 1 pnp for 750.00, with NO hidden charges, just shipping.

If you add PI cams, add 235.00

They can upgrade the whole head for you meaning comp cams and springs valves. Thats how the costs add up.

Could someone explain the difference in Stage 1/2/3, 3 Angle Valve Job
 

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The difference the stage jobs are the amount of porting that is done. Stage 1 is less than 2, 2 is less than 3. So the cost increases with the more porting.

Harry's has 3 different stages, the highest is around $650 if I remember correctly. I couldn't get any deffinate flow numbers from him, but he assured me that they were good. The numbers were customers' files and they requested they not be shared. Understandable.

I'm not too keen on the angle vavle jobs, but they do have a 3, 5, and 7 angle vavle job I think. It's just the number of angles they grind the vavle seats with to make them seat better. I think that 3 is sufficient, and with more angles, again the price goes up.

I'm going to try to remember what I got quoted from Harry's. I've got all my stuff packed up in my car right now to head home, so I'm going to take a shot.

Porting/Polishing (Stage 3) $650 (Stage 1 $400ish, Stage 2 $500ish)
Valve Job (3 angle, assembly/disassembly included) $190
Port Match to PI intake $90

I think those are close. When I had the actual prices it came up to around $1100 for all that, so something is a little off.

Shipping might be a bit spendy to IA from MA, but the heads I have came from Alabama and it was aroud $70 to ship them.

I would say buy a set of PI cams if you go with Steen, you can get a set for $100 or less. $235 is way too much, unless it costs more for porting because of the higher lift (??).

When I get home in about 4 or 5 hours I'll find the number to Harry's if you want to call them and see what they can do. They are pretty busy about now and start tapering off towrds July. Now I think their turn around time is about a month or so. Around the end of July when I plan to get mine ported, they said they can have them done in less than a week.

Joe
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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My latest set of heads from Renegade:
Non-PI F5AE castings
Port entrance matched to a PI intake
Bronze guides
SS valves
Comp Valvesprings
Full portwork and throat enlargement

intake:
.100"=62cfm
.200"=117cfm
.300"=164cfm
.400"=196cfm
.500"=214cfm
.600"=227cfm
exhaust:
.100=62cfm
.200=101cfm
.300=141cfm
.400=155cfm
.500=167cfm
.600=178cfm


You get what you pay for.
JL
 

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Sorry this took so long. Here's the number to Harry's Heads. 712-277-2911. The same guy answered the phone both times I called, he's pretty good to talk to. I don't know his name though... But here's the real prices I got

Port/Polish: $200 (Stage 1), $420 (Stage 2), $640 (Stage 3)
Port Match to PI Intake: $190
3 Angle Vavlve Job: $195 (I neglected to ask about cost of new springs etc)
No assembly charge, it is included with valve job. All porting is done with the CNC, not by hand.

Grand total: $1025 for Stage 3 PnP job

I am going to call back sometime in the future to see if I can get some rough estimates of what the flow numbers are on some of their heads that they've done.

There is a post about SVO heads recently. You might want to take a gander at that. The short of it though was that stock heads (96-8) flow about 170 cfm. The $750 job from Steen is flowing 190 cfm. Now stock SVO heads flow around 200 and some cfm which is about a Stage 2 job. You might want to look into going for either the Stage 2 or 3 so it is worth the money. IMO, $750 for 20 more cfm isn't really worth the hassle.

Joe
 

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well i really should of keep this thread sleeping but i just couldnt resist sorry

quote

Opinions wanted on P.I. heads
I have a new set of P.I. heads that I am going to get a port & polish job done on. I guess the real question is whether or not it would be worth it to get a valve job done at the same time. I don't plan on super charging the car well at least not on this engine. Thanks in advance for any words.




QUOTE]Originally posted by kdanner
A quality valve job will gain you more flow than any portwork ever will. That is where the big gains happen. [/QUOTE]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by T-bird_fan


Really? Then why does everybody talk about port & polishing. How does the value job help? Does it reduce resistance on the value when moving up & down?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote

posted by Kdanner

Good question. The only answer I can give you is they don't know what they are talking about. A good valve job makes the difference by smoothing the transition from the port to the chamber(or vice versa on the exhaust side). You'll hear three angle valve job mentioned a lot, well the factory valve job is 3 angle, big deal. You can usually narrow up the seat width still using only 3 angles and improve over the factory job. Then you can step up to something like 5 angles. The ultimate setup is to use Serdi equipment, there are no angles, the seat is cut in one operation and it's a smooth radius. This takes a lot of flowbench time and cutting a lot of seats to determine what is optimal for a particular cylinder head type however. Between that and some very minor blending of the bowl to the seat, you'll get over 90% of what these nearly mass produced "fully ported heads" will do.

end quote
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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Boy that is an old post sleeper.

I'm going to have my heads ported this winter and there is two reasons I'm going to go with Renegade, one is there is about 20 people on this board that have had it done there and not one has a bad thing to say about them. That is very important to me. The other is I think I pass by there on my way to work everyday so I will be able to talk to them face to face.

I have a couple questions for JL
1. Why SS valves, is this for durability
2. Bronze guides, is this so the guides wear first and not the valves?
3. Full port work and throat enlargement, what is this?
4. The comp springs I read about them in mm&ff are they worth the $$
 

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Yes,SS valves are for durability.If you're going blown,then the need for them is less than N/A since you' running at a richer a/f ratio blown,and that cools the valves.SS can take a bit more abuse than the OE type valves.Also,the SS valves are typically a slight bit larger-therefore they flow a bit more,and this is where the throat enlargement comes from.Most all of the gain from the portwork is from the radius improvements on the entrance to the combustion chamber.There is very little gained from the enlargement of the ports themselves when compared to the gains from a good valve job,and the throat/radius work.
Bronze guides have less friction than the OE iron guides,and they can be shaped to enhance flow without failures from cracks.
Comp Cams springs are one of the few brands of aftermarket springs that you'll find made for the 4.6L heads.Crower,Crane,and Modmax also sell springs-but beware of Modmax-they tend to break,and that usually means catastophic engine failure.

JL
 

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Real Ultimate Goatse Hunter
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cman2007 said:
I wonder if it would be hard to do a port job myself? What tools are involved to do a such thing?
A die grinder, lots of bits, 1 set of heads to cut in half to study, 10 sets of heads to practice port and a flow bench to find what port job ends up flowing the best for your needs. You could also just take a stab at it and hope you don't go into a water jacket or **** up the valve guides.
 

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While you may use a die grinder at home and get more flow than OEM, there's more to it than just flow. The direction and turbulence of the air also affects HP output, and unfortunately there isnt any real way to measure that, even with a flow bench.
That's a large part of the work JL is talking about.
Wise man say, 'Man who ports his own heads fools himself.' Shops who get good numbers have a lot of experience, and have also turned quite a number of heads into scrap before they got good results. And they never stop learning - even the best are still improving their designs. When I'm ready to have major head work done, I'll pay a proper shop to do it. For me to think I can just grab a dremel and do the same thing as someone who does nothing but cylinder heads for a living is crazy. Sorry to preach but I'd hate to see anyone waste their time and possibly ruin a set of heads. This stuff isn't cheap.

On another note, I'll be taking a class this summer from one of the best engine builders on the east coast on this very subject. Maaan is that going to be fun. ;)
 

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Yes... I see it isn't cheap. I will let a pro do it but I was just curious. I have a set of '97 GT heads and just want to have a little PnP done to help it flow close to PI. I would also like to have the intake ports match to a PI or close. It's hard to come by PI heads cheap thats why I found these NPI and wanted a little PnP done to them. If my local machine shops are too expensive then I'll just clean them up really good go with what I got. Anything more than $400-500 is more than I'm willing to pay right now. I mainly want the intakes to match PI and a good clean up on them.
 

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Real Ultimate Goatse Hunter
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cman2007 said:
Yes... I see it isn't cheap. I will let a pro do it but I was just curious. I have a set of '97 GT heads and just want to have a little PnP done to help it flow close to PI. I would also like to have the intake ports match to a PI or close. It's hard to come by PI heads cheap thats why I found these NPI and wanted a little PnP done to them. If my local machine shops are too expensive then I'll just clean them up really good go with what I got. Anything more than $400-500 is more than I'm willing to pay right now. I mainly want the intakes to match PI and a good clean up on them.
I have a set that is already ported for $525+shipping in the forsale section..
 
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