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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know if there a simple way to disable the lock-up on the 4R70W tranny (ie. put a SPST switch on the enrgizing wire)? The reason is the shudder has gotten so bad on my 94 t-bird that I would rather just keep the tranny unlocked during stop and go driving, and switch it on when I hit the highway. I'm not planning to keep the car for more than another year, so I don't want to spend the money to replace the convertor. Maybe there's a fuse dedicated to the lock up sol???

PS - this is the original tranny w/ 166k miles, and I've done every TSB and replaced fluid w/ Mercon V five times. It NEEDS a convertor, but I'm way too cheap :)

Mike
 

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Wise Man Say: Man who not replace worn out torque converter, replace torque converter and the transmission soon after.

If a Mercon V swap hasnt eliminated the TC shudder, I'd get that TC swapped asap before the seal rings go bad.
 

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Ya Ya, I know. 20 years ago I built trannys for 800hp track cars. I know what kills em.

I just don't plan to keep this car for more than another year, therefore I don't want to invest money into it. It's getting too many "old age" problems. It's been shudderin away for the last 40k miles, so I've learned how to drive "light-footed" just as it goes into lock-up to prevent damage. If I can just switch it "off" during stop and go driving, and turn it on for highway driving, it would make life a whole lot easier. It's gotta be a simple thing... one wire in the harness I'm sure. I just don't know which one, and I don't have a wiring schematic.

Any rebuilders out there know the answer?
 

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I was wonder that too. My TC doesn't shudder but I swear I can feel it unlocking when I give her a bit of throttle. Its like a sudden burst of power. Like a downshift only to a lesser degre.

And no its not the tranny coming out of OD into 3rd but its kinda simular.

Jake
 

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Printninja said:
Ya Ya, I know. 20 years ago I built trannys for 800hp track cars. I know what kills em.

I just don't plan to keep this car for more than another year, therefore I don't want to invest money into it. It's getting too many "old age" problems. It's been shudderin away for the last 40k miles, so I've learned how to drive "light-footed" just as it goes into lock-up to prevent damage. If I can just switch it "off" during stop and go driving, and turn it on for highway driving, it would make life a whole lot easier. It's gotta be a simple thing... one wire in the harness I'm sure. I just don't know which one, and I don't have a wiring schematic.

Any rebuilders out there know the answer?
But why would you keep a car with a crappy TC so the next person to get it has to put in a new trans because the TC is shot, one thing leads to another. Get a used Mustang TC and 6 bolt flexplate from the Mk8, be done with it and dont have to worry about locking and unlocking. Pay a little more now or alot later. Sorry to seem like im grilling the newbie, but if you know your way around transmissions, why not just do it right the first time or not do it at all. I just dont see the logic in tapping the wire leading to the EEC to control electronic lockup, when the TC will mechanically lock up at 1800rpm anyway. Have you tried locking around the transmission articles in the tech articles section of the site?

joseph
 

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For the cost and time you will put into the trans I am sure you will get it back when you sell the car. No one likes buying some one elses problems.

-Miller
 

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Printninja said:
Ya Ya, I know. 20 years ago I built trannys for 800hp track cars. I know what kills em.

I just don't plan to keep this car for more than another year, therefore I don't want to invest money into it. It's getting too many "old age" problems. It's been shudderin away for the last 40k miles, so I've learned how to drive "light-footed" just as it goes into lock-up to prevent damage. If I can just switch it "off" during stop and go driving, and turn it on for highway driving, it would make life a whole lot easier. It's gotta be a simple thing... one wire in the harness I'm sure. I just don't know which one, and I don't have a wiring schematic.

Any rebuilders out there know the answer?
I know what kills them too. TC's that shudder and aren't replaced for 40,000 miles are a pretty good example. I doubt under this condition the transmission will last all that long regardless of the torque converter clutch. What's done is done. And yes, I have rebuilt them too.

The wire that controls the TCC will be in the right rear corner of the transmisson, and I don't have the color of the wire at my fingertips right now, but I know it's surrounded by 3 pure red wires. it should be on the right rear side of the connector.

And MN12BIRD, yes you are feeling the TC unlocking. You can replicate this by cruising at light throttle and tapping the brakes while you're still holding the throttle open.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not to insult anyones mechanical abilities, but a shuddering convertor does NOT spell death for a transmission, provided you take away the load whenever you feel it about to go into lock-up. As long as there is no load, the clutches can apply without distress, and the "lock-up" occurs with nary a hiccup. You need to be sensitive to this when you are driving, which the average person could not be expected to do. I have been doing this for the last 3 yrs/66k miles, so obviously it can be done.

Also, as far as I know, the convertor won't "mechanically" go into lock up at 1800 RPM if the solenoid is not getting juice. Drive at 70 mph and lightly ride the brake, and see if the convertor stays unlocked. It should.

In any case, I just figured it would take all of 20 minutes to put a $2.00 switch on the lock-up sol wire and drive my last year in peace, as opposed to dumping $800 into a car I'll either end up junking, or get $1000 bucks for if I'm lucky. I've just never found anyone who knew offhand which wire was correct. Thanks for all the info folks.
 

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I would get a Marauder torque converter for it, it will probably run you $190 + install when it's all said and done. You can use your stock flexplate.
 

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Printninja said:
Not to insult anyones mechanical abilities, but a shuddering convertor does NOT spell death for a transmission, provided you take away the load whenever you feel it about to go into lock-up. As long as there is no load, the clutches can apply without distress, and the "lock-up" occurs with nary a hiccup. You need to be sensitive to this when you are driving, which the average person could not be expected to do. I have been doing this for the last 3 yrs/66k miles, so obviously it can be done.

Also, as far as I know, the convertor won't "mechanically" go into lock up at 1800 RPM if the solenoid is not getting juice. Drive at 70 mph and lightly ride the brake, and see if the convertor stays unlocked. It should.

In any case, I just figured it would take all of 20 minutes to put a $2.00 switch on the lock-up sol wire and drive my last year in peace, as opposed to dumping $800 into a car I'll either end up junking, or get $1000 bucks for if I'm lucky. I've just never found anyone who knew offhand which wire was correct. Thanks for all the info folks.
NRL is selling his Mk8 TC and flexplate for 50$ plus shipping....

joseph
 

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Printninja--

I plan on doing exactly what you are talking about with the converter lockup solenoid on my E40D in a 93 Bronco w/5.8. I had to replace the TC anyway because it heated the oil so hot that it blew out around the front TC seal while on a trip. The TC locks up at 45 MPH regardless of gear or where my foot is! When towing a 7000 # boat, lockup that low really cuts the ratio too much. Really noticeable when pulling away from toll booth etc. I wish TC lockup was at low speed , no load in 1st gear or at overdrive, no load, for the most efficiency and transmission of engine torque with least loss.
Get a tranny manuel or have someone with one tell you what the control wire color for the lockup solenoid is. You should be able to pick a location closer to the top in which to make the splice, even after going through several connectors for the particular control wire.
It is my understanding that the processor may kick out a code if it does not "see" a value, either voltage or resistance coming from the solenoid winding. I also understand that it will be a "soft" code, which will only light the dash light and not cause the processer to go to "limp home" mode.
I have already drawn out a schematic that provides a switch (dpst ?) that will allow a resistor the same value as the lockup solenoid to fool the processor into thinking it sees the solenoid winding.
I am aware that a xmission cooler (extra) is a must when the converter is not locked up.
At my present speed, I may be 90 years old when I try it. I don't see any damage to the xmission, unless you allow it to overheat.
 

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Well, first of all, I apologize for thinking you had a 97 Mark, when in your post you clearly state that you have a 94 T-Bird. I saw that you had a 97 LSC in your info and looked up the info on that. Looked up the info on a 94 4R70W and it says the TCC clutch control wire is pin 3 in the valve body connector. Pull the connector and look into it with the lock tang facing up. Starting in the top row of pins from the left, it is the third one over, the wire should be BR/O (brown and orange) however if you cannot determine the color due to oil stains be assured it's the third one over.
This is a ground control wire, meaning that when the PCM wants to apply the clutch it will ground this wire, <b>NOT</b> apply power to it.

In my Bird, I cut this wire and connected the side that ran to the TCC solenoid to the COM terminal of a SPDT (Single Pole, Double Throw) Center-Off switch. Terminal 1 of this switch is connected to the other part of this wire, the side that runs to the PCM. Terminal 2 runs to a ground. Now I can either force the TCC to stay unlocked, manually lock it, or leave it in control of the PCM. Manually locking it works great, except for the fact that the PCM sees (via the Turbine Speed Sensor) that the clutch is not being modulated according to it's commands. It will then flash the O/D OFF light, and after doing this a few times, it will set a code and turn on the SES light. Also, manually unlocking it works good too, except now the PCM sees that the TCCS circuit is open and again will flash the O/D OFF light, and eventually set a code. Driving with the TCC unlocked is not recommended, the trans fluid gets hot, fast.

Oh yeah, BTW, don't junk the poor Bird, I know somebody will buy it for cheap.
 

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hotbird--

Sounds like what I had drawn up for the E40D. A resistor, of the same value as the winding of the TCC solenoid, could possibly be used to prevent the processor/cpu from detecting a problem (open condition) of the circuit. Presumeabley this would prevent tbl light.
Acknowledged that unlocked converter will heat up fluid rapidly thats why extra cooling is needed. Can you or anyone else provide factual info that an unlocked converter will heat fluid more rapidly than a normal converter, without lockup that has been in use for years? At normal stall rates, which are consistant with older non-lockup converters, why would a later lockup design heat fluid any quicker or hotter than the older non-lockup design? That question has concerned me because I see references all the time to heat-up issues with unlocked late moder converters--
Tx yardbird
 

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Discussion Starter #15
TRAGEDY HAS STRUCK!!!!!!

So sorry to announce this, but last night, "NASCAR Style" I put my old, faithful T-bird into the concrete divider on the parkway! It was a combination of avoiding a collision, poor judgement, new "untried" tires, and misty roads. Luckly, I walked away with just a sprained finger.

So..... all the discussion about the lock-up switch has just become moot, as the car is totalled.

On the plus side however, I have it stored at my friends auto body shop, and I now have a nice parts car for anyone who's interested in parts. It's got a V8, brand new tires, the rims are in good shape (just dirty), all the glass except the windshield is good, the interior is in good shape and it actually still runs, (although the radiator is smashed.) It's located in Lindenhurst, NY, which is close to the border of Nassau/Suffolk county on the south shore of Long Island.

I'm gonna post this info in the appropriate topic as well. Again, thanks for all the info. It seems fate has a real sense of humor (sigh.)

At least I still have the LSC :)
 

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I would get a Marauder torque converter for it, it will probably run you $190 + install when it's all said and done. You can use your stock flexplate.
I realize this is a old thread but I guess I need to cure my 3rd gear shutter and have not found a successfull way to put a switch in the apply curcuit....Soooooo will the Marauder converter work in my 96 4.6 V-8 Thunderbird and anyone a part# andor a link to git one factory or after market?
Is a police Intercepter a equal/better choice or a mustang and part number/links??

Thanks in advance,
Steve/hydroracer19P
 

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I've got a mark 8 converter and flexplate if u wanna come pick it up 80 bucks but u must come get, putting a switch on it is very stupid and will make trans go into limp mode and it will slam gears
 

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I've got a mark 8 converter and flexplate if u wanna come pick it up 80 bucks but u must come get, putting a switch on it is very stupid and will make trans go into limp mode and it will slam gears
Young Feller,
In my 57 years I have been call'd alot of dif things...

Anyway, after a whole saturday try'n to figure a "STUPID" way to control lock-up manually like my former 200k+ miles GM 700R equiped 6.2 diesel 84 chevy 4x4 that made the truck much more driveable while tow'n my race car and hydroplane trailers in third gear ONLY for short periods because of the low powered, and non-turbo'd 6.2 diesel.
It was then I Googled the Idea and came to this site, then this older thread.

I thought it would make the 96 T-Bird 4.6 more smooth around town for the woman and less frustrate'n for me performance wise when it falls on it's face and becomes a slug around town with early lock-ups in 3+4th........This Yankee would just like'd to of been able to reclalibrate the lock-up through a reprogram chip or manually till up to cruise speed on the thru-way......I too understand heat issues and will add a large cooler and trans temp gage like my current tow vehicle> 1989 Dodge duelie with a Cummins and it's 727 trans.

Like my junior peeps at the Post Office Fleet garage in in Erie, Pa.(28) years and till retirement in Asheville, NC after 3 years....... where this Yankee worked on and did preventative Maint (PMI) on everything from 200-500 2.5+2.2 Chevy powered delivery vehicles with lock-up eliminate to Windstars and Astro vans and F-450 wreckers and F-550 roll-backs and F-800 Tractors +Take-3 Trailers with manual control lock-ups, and a fleet of 9+11 ton Allison equipt'd strait trucks, I thought I could do the same to one T-Bird.

And like my Asheville Garage co-workers would say here in the South..."Do wha?, "Bless yer heart"(@What are ya>stupid?) to the famous Forest Gump reply "Stupid is as STUPID does"

Thank you for your reply........SIR.......and like the other famous Forest Gump quote, "Life is like a box of chock-lets.....Ya NEVER know what.....yer gonn'a.....GIT".

Once again I will ask;
"....Soooooo will the Marauder converter work in my 96 4.6 V-8 Thunderbird and anyone a part# andor a link to git one factory or after market?
Is a police Intercepter a equal/better choice or a mustang and part number/links??"

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help this back-yard, Bone-head..... "stupid" Yankee mechanic.

Hydroracer100N/Steve French:cool:
1990 Souper Coupe 5-speed, re-faced flywheel, Heavy duty clutch and throw-out bear'n.
Super-6 .020 Wiesco pistons,Eagle rods,And balanced rotate'n Assy.
Super-6 Weld'd and port'd heads+ gasked match'd, ARP head studs.
3" intake and Dyno Max 3" X-40 exhaust, No cats.
Marsh under-drive pulleys and Supercoupe performance 10% O/D jackshaft pulley.
Mark-VIII alum lower control arms and total suspension re-bush.
13.2 ET @ 105MPH on a gentle pass with 225/60/ZR 16 street tires.
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122769

1996 4.6 T-Bird
Mint, all original http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128984
With lock-up issues and a woman who is un-happy.........:mad:

PS Is your Mark VIII converter new or used and approx how many miles on it if used(I would not want to be stupid and replace it again if high miles on it)?....How many miles are you from Marion,NC?("I've got a mark 8 converter and flexplate if u wanna come pick it up 80 bucks but u must come get").
I have Grand Kids in Fort Mill, SC. and not sure if Carthage is anywhere near either location....
Thank you SIR.
 

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Welcome to TCCoA Steve. Please check your attitude at the door.

From one Damn Yankee to another:

Do us all a favor and spare Rob and us the attitude. Now that we all know who you are, let me start by saying that you obviously haven't done your due diligence to know who this "Young Feller" Rob is.

Go ahead... read carefully through his signature, click on the link to his GARAGE in his signature. Take a look at his forum, his Bird, and his Cobra, and all the cars that he's built on this site - my own being counted among them... Rob knows what he's doing and he knows what he's talking about.

F.Y.I. Rob is owner and builder of the fastest 4.6L IRS MN12 in the Country. He didn't make that happen just by chance. He knows what he's doing!

I'd suggest you figure out exactly who it is you're talking to before you proceed to question their knowledge, experience, expertise or advice.

I find it odd that you'd take the time to write such a sarcastic reply and highlight stupid no fewer than seven times and yet not take the time to click on the link in Rob's signature to see exactly where Carthage, North Carolina is located, or just to see who it is that you're talking down to.

Believe it or not you are among some very smart, very talented people here; don't blow a first impression with an off the cuff reply to an assumed transgression.
 

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Wow.. I think RobertP was just trying to help. He knows his way around birds, I would be honored if he ever had the chance to work on my car. I wish he wasn't so far away.

I don't think he was calling you stupid, I think he just didn't like your idea.
 
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