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Discussion Starter #1
Just wanted to see what it was making with these minor mods.... and get a test after my winter mods.
I got 196.9RWHP and 249,4 RWtorque.
The lower torque might have to do with my exhaust but.....
I am gonna be doing some more mods b4 next race season, but any ideas what I should run now. Keep in mind I was running 15.0's consistently before the true dual exhaust, "THE" tranny mod, and before replacing the totally clogged fuel filter.

BTW, I have been running on 18" rim with 255/35/18 's tires on em'. I am gonna get some 15's or 16's for the track next year as well.
 

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Automatic Weapon
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Please post the pic of the dyno sheet, I would like to see how the power is spread out over the rpm range.

Just one question in my mind. The only real power adder you put on since your 15 second run is the dual exhaust (J-mod has nothing to do with dyno power), which is the source of my question.

You now have 197hp. Your previous best run was 15 seconds and the only real power difference is exhaust? This is my point: 197Rear wheel horse power is a lot of power and people with that power run low 14s. Problem: how are you going from 15 seconds to even mid 14s with dual exaust?

Perhaps there is something you have not mentioned or something I am overlooking here and that is very possible, but the amount of power you put out and your mods listed are increadible.

Congratulations on the power though!
 

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Big-Al said:
Please post the pic of the dyno sheet, I would like to see how the power is spread out over the rpm range.

Just one question in my mind. The only real power adder you put on since your 15 second run is the dual exhaust (J-mod has nothing to do with dyno power), which is the source of my question.

You now have 197hp. Your previous best run was 15 seconds and the only real power difference is exhaust? This is my point: 197Rear wheel horse power is a lot of power and people with that power run low 14s. Problem: how are you going from 15 seconds to even mid 14s with dual exaust?

Perhaps there is something you have not mentioned or something I am overlooking here and that is very possible, but the amount of power you put out and your mods listed are increadible.

Congratulations on the power though!
That's really only about 20 hp more than stock. And I think you would need 3.73 gears to breach the mid 14's with tha rwhp.
 

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JoeB said:
That's really only about 20 hp more than stock. And I think you would need 3.73 gears to breach the mid 14's with that rwhp.
My point exactly. 197 is a lot for our cars. No one here has that without a lot more mods. Perhaps he is in the freezing cold up in Alaska and at sea level and is getting those numbers. In which case, I need to move to Alaska!
 

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pardon my ignorance, but the stock numbers on my '95 Bird with the 4.6L read 205hp and 280ft-lb of torque.

why is it i run very high 15s when i "should" be running 14s?

i'm guessing there's a piece my feeble little brain is not putting into the puzzle.
 

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The difference is Crank Horsepower and Rear Wheel Horsepower. Cars are rated by manufacturers based on the power they put out at the crank. Crank doesnt mean a lot when it comes down to the car's acceleration. Rear Wheel Horsepower (RWHP) is how much power the wheels lay to the ground. in RWD cars, i believe the average drivetrain power loss is 18%. This is due to having to turn drivetrain components (transmission, torque converter, driveshaft, differential, and wheels). So a car is gonna have less RearWheelHorsepower (some call it Real Wheel Horsepower cause it's what matters) than it does Crank Horsepower. So if your crank hp is exactly 205 and there is exactly 18% drivetrain loss, than the car will have 168rwhp. of course every car varies, but based on this, Aaron T has about 30rwhp more than this example has. So basically, the easiest way to find out the most useful hp is to use a Wheel dyno.
 

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Big-Al said:


My point exactly. 197 is a lot for our cars. No one here has that without a lot more mods. Perhaps he is in the freezing cold up in Alaska and at sea level and is getting those numbers. In which case, I need to move to Alaska!
Exactly...every known bolt-on,with the exception of JBA's,and I'm at 212rwhp/282 ft-lbs.Best track times so far:

JL
 

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Re: Damn dude

dugweed said:
you cut a good light on the 3rd pass .505, i bet ya thought ya red lighted.
Mike
Not really...I'm typically between .510 and .600 at HRP, but I was concentrating on my launch and et hunting...
JL
 

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Incorrect...

birdman,

Actually, you have a '95 T-Bird and it was originally rated at 205 HP @ 4,500 rpm and 265 ft.-lbs. of torque @ 3,200 rpm. The '96-'97 4.6L T-Birds/Cougars are rated 205 HP @ 4,250 rpm and 280 ft.-lbs. of torque @ 3,000 rpm.

The dynojet shows REAR WHEEL horsepower, not flywheel power. Most are corrected to SAE, but some are done in STD. The correction factor, STD, is about 4% higher then SAE correction. Anyway, as most have said already, the driveline absorbs some of the power, that is why the numbers are different. My stock '95 T-Bird made 165 RWHP on a dynojet with an SAE correction factor.

chilipepprflea,

If Aaron made 196.9 RWHP/249.4 RWTQ, it's actually 230.1 HP and 291.5 ft.-lbs. of torque at the flywheel with the proper driveline loss formula. Of course these are peak numbers only. No it's not 18% and no, I won't disclose the formula.

A-Train
 

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sorry, i was referring to the power of Aaron's bird compared to the stock example i was using. but that 18% was off i guess.

what if i were making 170.4rwhp and 222.6rwtq? could you correct that to crank hp for me?
 

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Ok...

chilipepprflea,

No problem. According to the formula the "man" gave me, you're making...

199.1 HP and 260.2 ft.-lbs. of torque

Not quite what Ford said it would be, huh? Not that they ever lie...I mean the '99 Cobra eventually made 320 HP.

That's ok, I made 165 RWHP stock which comes out to 193 HP. I made 325 RWHP with the AED kit and the '00 engine, which is 379.85 HP. I'll take the extra 186 HP!

A-Train
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Big-Al
1."Please post the pic of the dyno sheet, I would like to see how the power is spread out over the rpm range.

2.Just one question in my mind. The only real power adder you put on since your 15 second run is the dual exhaust (J-mod has nothing to do with dyno power), which is the source of my question.

3.You now have 197hp. Your previous best run was 15 seconds and the only real power difference is exhaust? This is my point: 197Rear wheel horse power is a lot of power and people with that power run low 14s. Problem: how are you going from 15 seconds to even mid 14s with dual exaust?

Perhaps there is something you have not mentioned or something I am overlooking here and that is very possible, but the amount of power you put out and your mods listed are increadible.

Congratulations on the power though!"

1.I will either get my Dyno sheets on my webpage, or in this thread, tonight.

2. Even though the only "power mod" I did was the exhaust, my fuel filter was totally clogged. No matter how hard I blew, no air would pass through it. There was a very noticable gain when I changed this. The reason I brought up the J-mod is cuz I think it is supposed to take 1 (maybe 2) tenths off?

3. I don't hook-up to well at the track

"My point exactly. 197 is a lot for our cars. No one here has that without a lot more mods. Perhaps he is in the freezing cold up in Alaska and at sea level and is getting those numbers. In which case, I need to move to Alaska!"

Living in Alaska has nothin to do with the results of my Dyno results. It was actually warmer on the dyno than outside. I believe JoeB was saying 20HP isn't that much.


JL
"Exactly...every known bolt-on,with the exception of JBA's,and I'm at 212rwhp/282 ft-lbs"

Do you have your dyno shet? Does it show the temp. during the run(s). They are supposed to use some sort of cooling device for the fan to suck in cooler air.


With the dyno results, you guys think I should run mid to high 14's then? That would be cool. Once I recieved my Dyno files via email (printer supposedly not working???), they were corrected to SAE, my HP dropped only a few HP/Torque.
BTW, he said I was running a little rich (I got A/F trace), he said I should go up a step or 2 spark plugs wise, any recommendations?
 

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Aaron_T said:
I believe JoeB was saying 20HP isn't that much.
Actually man,20rwhp is alot...

JL
"Exactly...every known bolt-on,with the exception of JBA's,and I'm at 212rwhp/282 ft-lbs"

Do you have your dyno shet?
Yes I do
... Does it show the temp. during the run(s). They are supposed to use some sort of cooling device for the fan to suck in cooler air.
Yes,they do use a fan,right in front of the radiator,and the runs are corrected to SAE standards.
With the dyno results, you guys think I should run mid to high 14's then? That would be cool. Once I recieved my Dyno files via email (printer supposedly not working???), they were corrected to SAE, my HP dropped only a few HP/Torque.
BTW, he said I was running a little rich (I got A/F trace), he said I should go up a step or 2 spark plugs wise, any recommendations? [/B]
 

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Aaron T, I am just wondering how you got that much power out of that few mods. You can reference Johnny Langton above who made about your same power only after having every bolt on known to man on his Bird. You have what....chip and pulleys and exhaust? That does not equal 196 rwhp on any Bird I have ever seen. That is whay I am asking what's going on with your car. I personally just made 192.7 rear wheel horse power but that was with a HOST of mods.
I put up the comparison so you can see what I am talking about.

Big-Al: 192.7 hp...........................Aaron T: 196 hp
Chip from the man..............................Chip
3:73 traction lock rear end..................Dual exhaust
Aluminum drive shaft...........................pulleys
J-mod
pulleys
80 mm MAF
Custom Intake tube
Torque converter
Flowmaster cat-back
Conicle K&N
(I think that is it)


See what I am saying? Your hp is way high for the mods you have, which is good, but needs explaination.
 

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[puts on flame suit]

maybe hypertech module has something to do w/ it......could it be better than "the man's chip?" ahahahah... (i'm being sarcastic here guys,......but i'd be curious to find out the diff between jetchip hypertech and "the man's" program......like real specifics)
 

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Big-Al said:
Aaron T, I am just wondering how you got that much power out of that few mods. You can reference Johnny Langton above who made about your same power only after having every bolt on known to man on his Bird. You have what....chip and pulleys and exhaust? That does not equal 196 rwhp on any Bird I have ever seen. That is whay I am asking what's going on with your car. I personally just made 192.7 rear wheel horse power but that was with a HOST of mods.
I put up the comparison so you can see what I am talking about.

Big-Al: 192.7 hp...........................Aaron T: 196 hp
Chip from the man..............................Chip
3:73 traction lock rear end..................Dual exhaust
Aluminum drive shaft...........................pulleys
J-mod
pulleys
80 mm MAF
Custom Intake tube
Torque converter
Flowmaster cat-back
Conicle K&N
(I think that is it)


See what I am saying? Your hp is way high for the mods you have, which is good, but needs explaination.
Let's go one by one:

-Aluminum driveshaft provides very little power gain especially if it is larger diameter than the steel one which they usually are (larger diameter increases moment of inertia). I'd say 3 hp tops and only above 5000 rpm. Less below that.
-Torque converter will only provide a hp gain if it is much smaller in diameter and weight. A 3 inch decrease in diameter and shaving 30 lbs off the weight is worth about 10-15 hp at 5000 rpm. Do the math if you don't agree. I have for my 4l80e trans in my chevelle because it came with a 13" 65 lb converter.
-Gear change provides zero hp gain.
-As was already said J-mod gives no hp gain.
-We'll assume the chips to be a wash even though the j-chip is probably better.
-And the pulleys are a wash.

That leaves us with intake mods (maf, tube, filter) and a cat back vs. a true dual exhaust to account for the difference. And a true dual exhaust is a much more significant mod. If you still have your stock y-pipe you're lucky to get 5-10 hp from just the cat back and intake mods combined. You can only make as much hp as your biggest restriction. Think about it, you probably have a 3 inch intake tube but the stock y-pipe is squashed to less than 2 inches at one point. Can't intake more than you can exhaust. I'll take the stock violin case intake/maf and a true dual exhaust over a 3 inch intake and cat back any day.

Also, it's a common misconception but bolt ons don't add up in the hp column directly. Each successive one adds less and less exponentially. And when it's all said and done a good exhaust is always the hp/dollar champ!

And I still say 20 more rwhp ain't enough to go mid 14's without gears.
 
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