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Discussion Starter #1
I've been doing some reading about E85, and from what I've read, for the most part, it seems that larger injectors (42# injectors where used on an LS1) and a proper tune would allow an non-Flex fuel Vehicle to run E85 with no problems. Some other reading stated that the fuel systems of FFV are eletrically sealed because where Gasoline is non-conductive, Ethanol is conductive. I can't say this makes a ton of sense, since gasoline has had at least 10% ethanol for the last 10+ years, which would, in theory, make the gasoline at least somewhat conductive.

Anyone have any input or experence on this?

Thanks
 

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From what I've read, running ethanol isn't worth it due to the fact that it provides less energy per gallon than straight gasoline, therefore requiring more frequent refueling and hence shelling out $$ for gas more often.

Which sucks, because it would be nice to have a renewable fuel source, without resorting to crazy stuff like some companies have in the works.
 

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hotbird is right. E85 makes the car run like crap, decreases performance, and bad gas milage. on top of that, it could damage internals.

i know it did when a caddy customer put e85 in his seville.

also you car is 10yrs old so i wouldnt reccomend it in that old of a vehicle. e85 will lean a system out big time and make the fuel trim go biserk.

even with a tune, can a 97 EEC handle a tune for E85 do u know?
 

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if the fuel system can physically handle any adverse effects of E85, then im sure a tune could take care of the rest

some facts about E85 and premium gasoline:

Heating Value: ......29.19 kJ/kg.....43.5 kJ/kg
Octane ((R+M)/2):. 101.6 .............93
Density: .................0.783 kg/L......0.755 kg/L
Stoich. Ratio:..........9.87:1................14.7:1

since the Equivalence Ratio φ (inverse of Stoich when λ=1) for E85 is 0.10 (compared to 0.068 for prem. gasoline), this means that much "richer" conditions are needed to run E85 (hence the reason they switched to 42 #/hr injectors instead of overworking stock injecors too close to their max. duty cycle).........not only that, a given mass of E85 can only release ~70% the heat energy that an identical mass of gasonline can.........but you have but just because you need nearly 50% more fuel at any given time doesn't mean you will necessarily run out 50% quicker.....the 101 octane rating will allow much more ignition timing advance than prem. gasoline to make for a more complete combustion and possibly partially offset the negative attributes of E85......how much more, i dont know......but it would be a good topic for discussion
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As long as the fuel system could handle it (I've got a 255LPH pump, su supply shouldn't be an issue), I'm not too concerned about the economy. Partially because running E85 means that I'm burning that much less "oil" than I was before, and also, I don't drive the Cougar that much. It's really a "nice weather" car now. Also, the higher octane rating means more timing is possible (I've heard it's actually quite good for blown engines due to the higher octane rating).
 

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Here is some information I have gathered over some time. E85 is a good alterative for use in FFV, and a GREAT option for high performance engines.

Read over this, and make sure you watch the vidio at the bottom with Gale Banks and Jay Lenno.

http://members.tccoa.com/392bird/e85.htm

I will be raising my boost from 15 to 20 psi with it, and be able to do that with normal timing, which will add even more power.
 

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Im still waiting for some stations to pop up here. That would be awesome race fuel cheaper than standard fuel.

Another reason why the caddy might have leaned out is E85 will clean a tank out of any varnish and that will clog a standard paper filter. You have to run a mesh screen style of filter.
 

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yeah have you seen fords 7.0L experimental motor? it runs e85 and puts out like 700 hp. it supposed to come to the public later as the 6.2L "hurricane"
 

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do not put E85 in your car. it will damage it. E85 cars have special hoses, injectors, stainless steel fuel lines, and injectors. It will cause severe corossion in the fuel lines, rails, injectors and damage the fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
do not put E85 in your car. it will damage it. E85 cars have special hoses, injectors, stainless steel fuel lines, and injectors. It will cause severe corossion in the fuel lines, rails, injectors and damage the fuel pump.
Forgive me for being dense... but then how can we run current gasoline at all with ~10% ethenol? Granted, it's a lower amount, but there's stll ethenol in the fuel. and it's DEFINATLY enough to mess with tuning. According to Wiki (granted, not THE source for info, but probably reasonably credible) the fuel system of pretty much any vehicle made in or after 1995 should be able to handle it due to the ~10% ethenol required for the last 10+ years....
 

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Methanol is very corrosive, ethanol is corrosive but not to the degree that methanol is, and like Cougar281 said a 95 and newer is suppose to be fine.
I don’t think E85 will ever replace pump gas but I could see it becoming the standard racing fuel.
 

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That's weird, because I put E85 in my Pontiac Fiero GT and it ran GREAT on it.

I did the same thing with the GF's 00 Mustang 3.8L and it HATED E85.

Really weird.

Anyways, yeah. It seems like it could be goodstuff.
Best,
Ghost
 

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A buddy of mine is a DSM Turbo guru, and he swears by E85. Of course, he tuned the car and added bigger injectors, but he can run a LOT more timing, and runs on the street on high boost. He plans on running higher compression on his next engine.

He said it is far more resistant to detonation than gas and that it actually cools the intake charge! You use approx 27% more fuel with it, not twice as much! And he pays like $2.39 a gallon. It is corrosive to aluminum, so an anodized fuel rail would be nice.

Now the downside! They have to change to E70 for the winter because of starting problems. That is only 100 octane. E85 is "supposed" to be 105 octane. I have also heard of increased engine wear with the corn fuel.

So for now, I vote no on the corn juice! Only one station, 15 miles away, and what if they stop selling it!

Al
 

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ethanol is crossive most cars built after 1995 can withstand 10% mixture without corrosion problems any more than that it will snifigantly degrade the fuel lines and hoses. The stochometric air fuel ratio for 100% ethanol is 9-1 verses 14.64 for 100% gasoline. E10 gas with 10% ethanol is 14.08-1. Ethanol has only 2/3 the same energy as gasoline for the same volume. Ethanol will burn cooler but you have to burn more of it and it has a octane rating of 107.

87 octane gas that starts out as 87 then 10% ethanol added has a octane of 89.
91 octane gasoline with 10% ethanol has a octane rating of 92.6.
 

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there is some gas stations in tulsa quick trip, and the ones on the turn pike that are blending 89 octane gasoline wtih 10% ethanol to get 91 octane. Fiesta marts in tulsa only use 91 octane gas + 10% ethanol to come up with 92.6 octane even though the pump says 91. I know this first hand.
 

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As soon as we get more Ethanol stations in my area I will definitely be making the swap. It's worth it to me to tell the Arabs to stick the Gas up their A$$.

Plus I love the idea of more HP.:D
 
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