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Discussion Starter #1
First of all. Anyone running E85 in their cars. I've messed around with it in super mileage. If I were to get a multi program custom chip burned I think it would be completely safe to run E85 in my 4.6. Does anyone have any thoguhts on this. I'm gonna get peoples thoughts, then email apten to see what they can do.
We've converted 3.5 horse briggs engines to run it be just increasing the compression, but I know the same can be accomplished with bigger carb jets. My main reason for wanting to do this is the take my up the butt fuel prices and the performance gain since E85 is like 110 octane fuel.
That brings me to another question. How would it run in a blown vehicle like a super coupe. Logic says you could run a smaller pulley without worries of detonation. Once again thoughts and theories on this.
 

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http://www.e85fuel.com/faqs/conversion.htm

To put it simply, you'd need to replace your entire fuel system to handle E85, and if your state usues a sniffer, you'd need to have a DAMN GOOD tune, which would probably cost you ALOT more than you'd ever save by using E85.
 

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Why would using ethanol give you better mileage and more power? This seems interesting but I always thought that gasoline would produce more power than ethanol.

-Andrey
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ethanol has higher octane, more advance, more power. It wouldnt really give you better mileage, but its much cheaper. Since it burns cleaner, why would it make a sniffer go off (doesnt matter cause theres no emissions checks in Minnesota) I heard the FFV tauruses can gain about 5% HP when you use E85.
Does the ethanol eat fuel lines that bad that it's an issue? Other than possible corrosive problems I havn't really seen a problem with conversion.
 

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I wrote a report on alternative fuels and stuff for college and from the info I gathered pretty much just said that fuel system components would deteriorate at only a slighty faster rate if converted to E85. I found a chart of materials used in fuel systems and those used in FFV systems somewhere that compared suitability for this but I don't remember where. I would think if that wasn't that much of an issue to you, you could probably get away with a good tune, probably a switch chip for gas/E85 usage. I am not going to be responsible for any damage you may cause by converting though.;) Theoretically, it should get slightly worse gas mileage because you would have to run a richer fuel/air mixture to compensate for the already oxygenated fuel.

Personally, I think that alcohol is the way of the future. Current cars could be converted to it, and fuel cell vehicles would be able to run on it too. It would also help boost the failing farming economy if more alcohol was produced from crops. It would help us get away from fossil fuels for good.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I know it wouldnt really be better mileage, but the main idea is more power and cheaper gas.
I dont really see what the alcohol could eat in the fuel system. The tanks plastic, everything else is pretty much plastic except for the hard lines. Those could be redone in stainless for not much money. I'm sure the injectors are built tough enough.
The only thing I can see is if I have to fill up with reg. sometime and there's still E85 in the tank and then when i switch the chip it runs like ***.
 

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Ethanol vehicles get much worse gas mileage from what I've heard. I would like to see some actual numbers on this. Also, ethanol burns much cooler, which is probably a good thing. How much does this E85 cost?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A fair amount less than 87.
The cooler burning can be a pain in cold weather. The briggs motor we had set up wouldnt start worth a **** in 40 degree weather.
 

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Do they sell it at certain gas stations or must you order it like methanol? I've never heard of this E85 stuff. The only ethanol I have came from the liquor store.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just certain gas stations.
They have Flex Fuel Vehicles that can run on Ethanol such as the Ford Taurus, and ranger, and i think dodge caravans, and some others.
 

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First...the higher the octane...the LESS VOLITILE the fuel. The lower the octane rating, the more volitile the fuel. The higher the RON, the LESS power you will make...period. Don't argue...you're are wrong.

More octane doesn't mean you'll make more power. In fact, you'll make more power on lower octane fuel since it burns easier and more complete. What determines the power output of any gasoline engine is how efficenctly it burns fuel. If you think differently, you're wrong. Air is a limiting factor on power output.

High octane fuels are required when cylinder pressures are HIGH. The higher the cylinder pressures, the more knock constrained the engine. A supercharger is one example of an engine with high cylinder pressures. Another example is, an engine with a high compression ratio (i.e. 14:1). An engine with a high compression ratio, is knock constrained since it's cylinder pressures are higher than most normal engines.

High octane fuel RESISTS the inital burn and is harder to ignite than a low octane fuel. Therefore it becomes useful on a knock constrained engine where pre-ignition & detonation must be controlled.

Now I know someone is going to argue with me...that's fine. Bring facts to the table. Someone will say, I made 400 HP with 93 octane fuel and 440 HP with 110 octane fuel. I'll say...:bs:!!!!!! The power did not come directly from higher octane fuel. It came from more spark timing and/or cooler combustion chamber temperatures.

E85 cannot be used in standard fuel systems. Alcohol eats and corrodes fuel system parts faster than gasoline. I've seen alcohol cars with fuel systems that need to be changed more often that you'll imagine. While E85 can be used on the 4.6L engine, things will need to be upgraded to make it work.

I don't see the point though unless you're simply after a way to get away from Dino juices. Which is perfectly fine and needs to be addressed with the way gasoline prices are taking off.

A-Train
 

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Jimbo said:
That was the initial plan, but if i had a chip programmed to get much more timing, it would make more power because i could use more timing then.
Your making assumptions. Ethanol requires a much richer mix than gas. You might need 24lb injectors even on a stock engine. Not to metion all new fuel lines, fuel filter, etc.
 

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Get off the mileage kick. The EEC runs at stoichiometric in closed loop. That's 14.64:1 for gasoline, 9:1 for Ethanol. So lets say you get 20 mpg on gasoline, you'd get 12.3 mpg on 100% Methanol, you can do the math for the other mixes I guess, but why bother. You'd also need 30# injectors to support the same HP level a 19# will on gasoline. Methanol is worse at 6.5:1 but at least it smells good coming out the exhaust, it will make your eyes water like hell but it smells good. Ethanol powered vehicles STINK BAD.
 

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You can say it's the timing that creates the power all you want, but when the fuel is what allows you to run the advanced timing, the fuel is more responsible for the power than the timing itself.
 

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kenshi,

Again, lower octane fuel will produce more power. One more time...what determines power output of any gasoline engine is how well it burns fuel.

Power does not come directly from a higher octane fuel. Believe what you want, the facts are laid out.

A-Train
 

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Jimbo said:
You can argue if it comes directly or indirectly, but it makes more power one way or another so who GIVES A **** if its direct or indirect
Because your engine is not capable of making more power from it until you upgrade your fuel system, and get a chip/tune.

Your going to spend AT LEAST $700 to convert to E85.
 

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A-Train said:
kenshi,

Again, lower octane fuel will produce more power. One more time...what determines power output of any gasoline engine is how well it burns fuel.

Power does not come directly from a higher octane fuel. Believe what you want, the facts are laid out.

A-Train
Yes, at 10 degrees BTC, the lower octane fuel makes more power. Funny are the people that put in premium without any modifications or adjustments and claim more power and fuel economy. (It is possible if their engine is crusty, but most of them aren't.) But assuming you adjust the timing according to the fuel, the premium will give a slight bit more power. In a car with a distributor, changing the timing is a menial task. What I'm getting at is saying it's the timing and not the fuel that's adding power is like saying it's the compressed air and not the supercharger adding power. Yeah, a supercharger that isn't set to add boost (like if it was lacking a pulley) would just be a restriction, but you're a moron if you do such a thing.

I hope this post sounds less offending than the last, because after reading the last one, it doesn't sound nice.
 
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