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Discussion Starter #1
So my father wants to build in engine in his spare time with me. Need some ideas of what to look into. It will go into a 96 bird and needs to fit the following criteria.

Must be able to handle 200 shot of nitrous and less than 500 hp.

would like thoughts on 11 or 12.-1 compression. Is this streetable with 93 octane?

Should i do cams on the stock heads? Im thinking hitech stage 2 and degreeing them.

What is a budget way to build a motor with forged pistons and rods without reusing the stock block? I want aluminum for the weight savings?

What will be the rpm limit with a stock 4.6 non forged crank?

What oil pump do you recommend?
Do i need new oil pump gears?

What rings and bearings do you like for a nitrous motor?


This motor must last on the street and i would like it to make 300 na and then 430 or so on the juice.

What is the best way to do this on a budget? 3500 or more for a shortblock sounds ridiculous.
 

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budget build, forged internals, and aluminum block don't go together....

figure out what you want to spend first..... if you want cams.. you are looking at $400+ unless you find a used set out there... if you gonna spend money on forged internals.. better pay to have it balanced with the crank
 

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Discussion Starter #3
well lets say more budget than paying someone to do work that we are perfectly capable of doing. Plus its a good learning experience for me. Nothing car related is budget friendly lol.

So i either have to send off the entire rotating assembly to be balanced or buy a pre balanced rotating assembly?
 

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4.6L aren't your normal 351..... They are an expensive build no matter how you put it... especially with the aluminum block. and when you get the nitrous be sure to buy a laptop that warns you when there is "danger to manifold" From spraying that 200 shot of nawz.
 

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it might be cheaper and more economical to buy a PI exploder motor and use that as is.. if you blow something up, just go buy another for 8 or 900 and sell the leftovers.. usually the blocks ok if you bust a piston or whatever.. heads can survive. worth a few hundred, etc

better than spending $3K on a badass motor and then blow something up..
 

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it might be cheaper and more economical to buy a PI exploder motor and use that as is.. if you blow something up, just go buy another for 8 or 900 and sell the leftovers.. usually the blocks ok if you bust a piston or whatever.. heads can survive. worth a few hundred, etc

better than spending $3K on a badass motor and then blow something up..
I agree with James here. I have been looking out for Explorer engines here in the OKC area lately. There are 2 engines in the $700 area but they both have 100k miles on them (freshen them up & with a few bolt ons, you're close to that 300hp mark pretty cheap). There also a couple low mileage (40k or so) Explorer engines down in Norman for around $1250 (work over the heads, cams & bolt ons and you're set)
 

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or find one out of a crown vic.. iron block, weighs more.. but prolly just as cheap
 

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12 to 1 compression is to much for 93
so you've built many 2V 4.6s with that much compression and have re-worked the several timing tables and fuel tables in the EEC, and changed the cam profiles/centerlines and that is how you arrived at your conclusion?
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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e85 is a viable alternative. Only if you have stations in the area and modify the fuel dilivery system.
Don't fear the compression.
 

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IMHO - Mark VIII shortblock with forged rods and NPI type dish forged pistons, PI heads, good cams, and you need to really spend some money on the tranny and converter.
 

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e85 is a viable alternative. Only if you have stations in the area and modify the fuel dilivery system.
Don't fear the compression.
why? e85 has been shown to reduce power and efficiency

unless you using it for the 100+octane rating because of the alky content
 

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IMHO - Mark VIII shortblock with forged rods and NPI type dish forged pistons, PI heads, good cams, and you need to really spend some money on the tranny and converter.
Why install PI heads on an engine that comes stock with 4V heads?

Just my opinion, but "bang for the buck":
Mark VIII engine with forged rods and pistons, stock "B" heads with upgraded cams/valves. $$$$$ for the valvetrain, but P&P'ing PI heads isn't cheap unless you can do it yourself. Plus the 4V setup would have greater potential if you ever decided to go boosted.

I guess my question is:

Which gives the better (probably a subjective question depending on the intended application) result vs. the money spent?

4V hardware (cams, valves, springs) but no machine work (P&P’ing) vs. machine work (P&P’ing), and cams, springs for the PI heads?

Just throwing things out there for discussion. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
wow isnt this an interesting thread.

while the explorer is an option, I dont think i want to worry every day whether or not it will survive the night at the track. I have one in my car now and i want more. If im going to spend the money on cams and heads i would rather just build a whole engine. I guess i should just delete the budget part lol.

I dont want to go four valve...i know its the better money option perhaps but i have my wifes 4 valve to play with and i like the 2 valve motor.

I ordered a set of cobra forged rods today. my plan is to gather parts for the next 6 months and then start this summer if i dont get deployed again.

guitarmaestro: What compression were you running on your build? I would think 12-1 is possible with a decent tuner and then just add timing when at the track running race gas.

I already have every bolt on and a darrin built trans and two converters from alan. I have got a spare trans also.

One of my problems with just swapping in a new explorer motor is that all i can really add is cams and heads. If i build a solid forged motor then regardless of na or nitrous or supercharged than i am good to go...assuming i built it right lol.

Jasonlmarsh: Were is the pull a part that i can get a block that cheap?

My other option is to run my current explorer motor on a max of a 125 shot until it blows and then put in another explorer motor and build the blown one in my spare time. That might be what i do.
 

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Why install PI heads on an engine that comes stock with 4V heads?

Just my opinion, but "bang for the buck":
Mark VIII engine with forged rods and pistons, stock "B" heads with upgraded cams/valves. $$$$$ for the valvetrain, but P&P'ing PI heads isn't cheap unless you can do it yourself. Plus the 4V setup would have greater potential if you ever decided to go boosted.

You can get TFS cams, springs, retainers for $600 and have them installed in a set of ported and polished PI heads for another $695.

So thats $1295 for heads, cams, springs, retainers, bronze guides, etc.

The 2V is about to get near as affordable as the 5.0 :D

4V is still a good option, but having the heads even stock rebuilt with good guides costs a bit and the cams ain't near as cheap.
 

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that motor should take a 150 shot....I ran a 125 on mine for about 30,000 miles(stock 95 NPI motor), and then got greedy and blew it up..
 

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Jasonlmarsh: Were is the pull a part that i can get a block that cheap?
I haven't actually priced the engines at pull-a-part but i was told they were only a hundred or two. Next time I'm out there (week or three) will will take a look at the actual price on the board and send you a PM to let you know for sure. I was out there this last week scavenging some aluminum MKVIII parts and noticed they have 3 Mark's with engines still.
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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why? e85 has been shown to reduce power and efficiency

unless you using it for the 100+octane rating because of the alky content
....use it for the octane rating. In my 4.6 I built for e85 and run 12 to 1 comp. Fuel milage is bad. last tank of city driving was 11 mpg. But it cost $1.39 a gal. so I don't worry about it.
 
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