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Discussion Starter #1
First, lets not get into the politics of this! That's not why I'm making this thread.

My hope out of all this is if this thing were to stick, that aftermarket exhaust / performance stuffs like say, mid-length or full-length headers, would then be OK to use. :)

That things like classic cars (25yrs+) would then be exempt from getting the sniffer test.

That high flow CATs wouldn't be so god damned expensive!

That's the sort of thing I hope comes out of this if it were to stick.
 

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The bummer is, your air goes back to this:



Look at the background about 15 seconds in.

I remember that this is how the air in ALL the cities looked back in the early 70's.

Knoxville TN was as orange as... well, it was orange from the smog. :D

I prefer being a rare outlaw, vs everyone doing it. :)
 

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The bummer is, your air goes back to this:
EPA emissions is still law. Vehicles since the 90's have been very clean, even more so now than ever. It's not like car manufactures are going to stop using catalytic converters and go back to carburetors.

Also the way I see it, I doubt Cali will ease up on enforcing aftermarket or modified exhaust. NY has been following CARB since the 90s. You can't by law run anything but a stock exhaust. The difference here over Cali is for inspection usually if you pass the OBD2 check, the shops don't care about much else. Depending where you live the police don't really care if your car is loud either.

The state can probably enforce whatever inspection laws they want. However there may not be two emission options for new cars being built depending how it works out.
 

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If you think high flow cats are expensive, try buying a factory one. 2X the price and then some.

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If you think high flow cats are expensive, try buying a factory one. 2X the price and then some.



Al
I know that. It's just that I see 49 state CATs go for pennies compared to CA mandated CATs.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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The bummer is, your air goes back to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0CO5y8a8mE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwZa5rRRNQ

Look at the background about 15 seconds in.

I remember that this is how the air in ALL the cities looked back in the early 70's.

Knoxville TN was as orange as... well, it was orange from the smog. :D

I prefer being a rare outlaw, vs everyone doing it. :)
It’s not 1968 anymore. Automakers are global entities now and have to comply with global standards on emissions. California’s historical ability to strongarm what was primarily the Detroit big three into compliance is an outdated practice in this day and age where cars are cleaner than ever, with EVs on the horizon.

Good riddance. And like Kenz said, I don’t believe this will actually make any difference on the state inspection programs that would effect you, it also doesn’t abolish CARB, which is why your cats are expensive. It means CA loses its power to set its own emissions standards that in effect make ALL cars in all 50 states and internationally compliant to the CA standard, for production efficiency.
 

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The bummer is, your air goes back to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0CO5y8a8mE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwZa5rRRNQ

Look at the background about 15 seconds in.

I remember that this is how the air in ALL the cities looked back in the early 70's.

Knoxville TN was as orange as... well, it was orange from the smog. :D

I prefer being a rare outlaw, vs everyone doing it. :)
That's not what's being proposed though.
The ONLY thing this affects is higher NEW CAR mileage and emissions standards than the federal level.

As was pointed out earlier, doesn't abolish CARB, doesn't nullify any existing laws in CA. And most importantly, it won't introduce any more emissions than any other state.

It's not a victory for the car hobbyists. It helps manufacturers, that's about it.

There are cities, Sacramento I believe, where you need a license to do any automotive work more than rotating your tires. They've basically outlawed working on your own car, restoring a car in your garage, etc. Thanks to Kevin Hart, now they're looking into new laws for modified vehicles as he wrecked his hemi swapped Mopar. So expect more obtrusive laws to come to CA.

We don't need to be excessively polluting to enjoy our cars. It's not the 70's anymore, technology has caught up and lets us have factory stock 500+ HP cars with full emissions controls that can still get respectable MPG on a cruise. But we also don't need a bunch of out of touch people who have never turned a wrench in their lives telling us what we can and cannot do in our own garages, and how much our better running than average project cars pollute vs a new Civic.
 

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There are cities, Sacramento I believe, where you need a license to do any automotive work more than rotating your tires. They've basically outlawed working on your own car, restoring a car in your garage, etc. Thanks to Kevin Hart, now they're looking into new laws for modified vehicles as he wrecked his hemi swapped Mopar. So expect more obtrusive laws to come to CA.
Not that I’d be particularly shocked by it but there are a dozen Autozones that pop up around the Sacramento area in a google search, and I can’t imagine all they’re selling in all those big stores are car wash supplies and wiper blades. That double goes for modified vehicles, isn’t Hot Rod, Hoonigan and a big portion of aftermarket parts companies still based out there? Katlyn Jenner murdered someone with a stock late model production car in California, but I didn’t hear any rumors of banning transitions for that celebrity car incident
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It’s not 1968 anymore. Automakers are global entities now and have to comply with global standards on emissions. California’s historical ability to strongarm what was primarily the Detroit big three into compliance is an outdated practice in this day and age where cars are cleaner than ever, with EVs on the horizon.

Good riddance. And like Kenz said, I don’t believe this will actually make any difference on the state inspection programs that would effect you, it also doesn’t abolish CARB, which is why your cats are expensive. It means CA loses its power to set its own emissions standards that in effect make ALL cars in all 50 states and internationally compliant to the CA standard, for production efficiency.
As you said it, the auto industry is a global market now. That being said, California isn't strong-arming the global market, just the US market as the EU has much stricter emissions regulations than even California.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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It's called Fear Mongering; it's what I do, lol.

I actually saw references to the Dragnet clips on the news, that's where I got the idea; I won't embarrass them by saying which ones. (Not the ones you'd think... Yahoo news aggregates a lot of places)

The person saying this was thoroughly debunked; I don't see it going there either.


I thought it was funny to post, tho; I'm kinda a dick. :)
 

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As you said it, the auto industry is a global market now. That being said, California isn't strong-arming the global market, just the US market as the EU has much stricter emissions regulations than even California.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Both things are what I said. The economics of having regional automobiles is no longer considered that feasible for global market demands, hence why Australia’s independent products unfortunately went by the wayside.

California being the massive population center that it is is America’s number one automobile market by a healthy margin, and if an automaker whose largest marketshare is still the US, losing California by not meeting their targets and standards would be a potentially fatal loss in sales for them, hence compliance cars like the Focus electric or Fiat 500e sold at a loss just to continue selling their other models in that lucrative market. Building two different versions of the same car as done in the past really isn’t good for the bottom line either. Environmental legislators know this and absolutely have historically used the state’s sheer mass to dictate what can and can’t be made by manufacturers for the whole nation. The global market rendered this power moot, yes, but the global standards are modeled right off of them - the global goal is zero emissions by ____, CA’s goal is zero emissions by ____. The EU was very lax compared to even US federal standards 10+ years ago, we missed out on a lot of really cool models that they and Japan could get through the 80s and 90s
 

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As far as it goes, I know there were CA emissions embedded in the EEC programming for Our Cars, but were there actual Hardware changes?

Different Cats, or other parts?

I've never ran across those, but I think It's possible, but WTF do I know. :)

The EU has gas prices that are 4x+ ours, and the most strict tailpipe standards.
That seems to be a deterrent to my cars, lol.
 

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The only hardware difference on our cars due to CA emissions was the 94/95 3.8NA cars had DIS instead of a distributor. Some cars do have different cats, or some had MAF vs speed density, or wide-band o2 sensors instead of narrow band, some had different cams, and in the case of the 1980 Corvette, it got a whole different engine! That year the CA emissions vette got a 305 instead of a 350.

As for europe’s regulations, my understanding is that they are more strict about modifications to cars, but less strict about what can be manufactured. I don’t know of any CAFE equivalent in Europe, but they have very high gas taxes, which means people will want fuel efficient cars instead of 7 passenger V8 4wd SUV’s to commute to work every day.
 

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One of my friends in Germany converted his VW Golf to propane, which allowed him to avoid the really heinous taxes; his friends thought he was Satan himself, lol.

Propane is not taxed like gas.

I have a set of propane heads here somewhere, just in case, lol.

That's apparently what Leland used for his 5.4 conversion, with the wart, for some reason.
 

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Forgot about the 94/5 DIS, good call!

They don’t have CAFE outside the US but there are countries with annual taxes based on engine displacement, as I understand it that’s part of the reason US cars never had strong export sales besides obvious factors like girth. Also why the current crop of global cars have tiny displacement fours with turbochargers as top of the line options
 

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Agreed; Ive had German Interns tell me my V8 was horrible; then they didn't want to ride with me again, lol...
 

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Not that I’d be particularly shocked by it but there are a dozen Autozones that pop up around the Sacramento area in a google search, and I can’t imagine all they’re selling in all those big stores are car wash supplies and wiper blades. That double goes for modified vehicles, isn’t Hot Rod, Hoonigan and a big portion of aftermarket parts companies still based out there? Katlyn Jenner murdered someone with a stock late model production car in California, but I didn’t hear any rumors of banning transitions for that celebrity car incident
California County Makes Certain Auto Repairs illegal.
https://speedsociety.com/california-county-automotive-repairs-garage-illegal/
A different article I read a few weeks ago stated that they're aggressively fining people due to the vagueness of the law when they do oil changes, or are doing other work that gets a little deeper into the car.

In other news, thanks to Kevin Hart's crash in his modified Mopar, now they want to legislate requiring harnesses in modified cars. Not that having harnesses is a bad thing, but is it required?
The Kevin Hart thing is merely a possibility, but in today's nanny state climate, extremely likely.
https://popculture.com/celebrity/2019/09/21/kevin-hart-likely-sued-car-crash/
 

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California County Makes Certain Auto Repairs illegal.
https://speedsociety.com/california-county-automotive-repairs-garage-illegal/
A different article I read a few weeks ago stated that they're aggressively fining people due to the vagueness of the law when they do oil changes, or are doing other work that gets a little deeper into the car.

The Kevin Hart thing is merely a possibility, but in today's nanny state climate, extremely likely.
https://popculture.com/celebrity/2019/09/21/kevin-hart-likely-sued-car-crash/


Conducted on vehicles registered to persons, not currently residing on the lot or parcel;

Conducted outside a fully enclosed garage and resulting in any vehicle being inoperable for a period in excess of twenty-four hours.”
I know of HOAs with similar restrictions, this isn’t new unique to California

Law enforcement sources also told the outlet they might look into lobbying for California State Legislature to prohibit custom car companies from releasing products without harnesses, even if the customer doesn't want them.
Well, in that case build your own cars in your garage like a real man :tongue:
 

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I'd really have hated hitting something hard in my 63 with the low backed seats, lap belts, and solid metal dash.

It was damn heavy to flip, but at 5500 pounds, it would have broken off the passengers at the seatback.


I LIKE our cars.
 
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