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Over the past few years, we’ve seen Ford, GM and Chrysler make changes to the fuel economies in their vehicles, with some of the most drastic changes seen in today’s pickups.

From the EcoBoost to the AFM technologies, automakers are making great strides to produce a quality vehicle that not only pleases consumers, but meets regulations set by the federal government.

As the government begins enacting environmentally-friendly guidelines for automakers, companies are being forced to take additional approaches to control emissions and gas mileages.

Over the past couple of days, the Obama Administration finalized new gas mileage standards to take effect, starting in 2025. All cars and trucks will have to produce a fleet-wide average of 54.4 miles per gallon.

According to Detroit News, the rules give automakers credits for building hybrid light trucks and adding fuel-saving features that the government didn’t take into account in prior years.....


See whole article here: http://blog.powerblocktv.com/?p=4927
 

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I'm confused, was he not around in the 70s? Did he not see what a complete failure the CAFE laws were then? What makes them think that it will be any different now?

The only thing I am curious about is since Pontiac is gone, what manufacturer do you think is going to pull the old sunbird trick? I'm actually betting on Dodge this time.
 

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What is the Sunbird trick?
 

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I'm actually 100% OK with the increase in fuel economy. Just look at what has been actually productized in the last few years: direct injection, turbo charging, and >4+ gear automatics.

The Hyundai 2L Turbo makes 274HP and gets 34MPG... on regular pump gas.
Hell, even the Mustang V6 now makes 300HP and 31MPG hwy.

In the 70s, many of the techniques for fuel economy (like cylinder deactivation) weren't possible because electronics technology for engine mgmt wasn't there yet. This resulted in dreadful, underpowered cars.

We have made leaps and bounds in both electronics development and manufacturing tolerances. There's no reason why we can't have cleaner, more efficient cars. Considering how much CNG we have in the US, I'm surprised we don't have more CNG cars for example. Or diesel hybrids.

For those of you who complain that these technologies are only pushing up car prices,
a) there's noone forcing you to buy a new car and as newer cars get substantially better gas mileage (vs used cars), depreciation on used cars will increase to make them more affordable for you

b) There will ALWAYS be a market for cheap new cars. a Nissan Versa can be had for $11.75K MSRP new -- and that will get 38MPG hwy.

Bottom Line: as private enterprises, car companies want to maximize their profit even if it means the environment suffers. IMO, it's worth it to force them to adopt more modern technology vs just having them return their revenues to their shareholders.

-g

PS. As far as small cars being rebadged to up the CAFE of mfgs, it's still happening. Just google Aston Martin Cygnet. With the recent takeover of Porsche by VW (they used to be "cousins" with related ownership but and now one fully owns the other), I suspect we will see another VW-based Porsche 914 like car in the future.
 

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Pontiac came out with the Sunbird in the late 70s for one reason; to still be able to put a big block in the Trans-Am. It was a cheap POS car that did nothing well except get good gas mileage, and then Pontiac priced the car so low that they actually lost money on every single Pontiac Sunbird sold. By pricing it so low, they sold tons of the things, and the higher gas mileage rating of the Sunbird was able to offset the lower gas mileage rating of the Trans-Am, so they were still above the CAFE regulation. Since, in the late 70s, there was no other option for a muscle car with a big block, Pontiac was able to raise the price on the Trans-Am, and people who wanted the power would pay it, and they more than made up the money they lost on the Sunbirds with the money they made on the Trans-Ams.
 

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What actually happens though is all the companies end up building a line or two of unappealing, slow, tiny ****boxes for each division to offset the rest of the car/truck lines that still pull in customers. Like, for example:



And don't think for a moment that formula won't happen today either...



Hell even the progressive environmentaly conscious Japanese automakers that are soooooo loved on the coast have moved towards bigger heavier, faster, cars, SUVs and CUVs over the last 20 years. It's no surprise they've been introducing microcars and subcompacts into their portfolio recently. Think that's pent up demand? Or preparation for the next wave of CAFE?


I agree that progress is good. The reason progress was so stifled by the 1970s though was that a certain American automaker had over 50% marketshare and the other two tended to use it as their yardstick for car development. That paradigm has changed as drastically as the technology has however. To say that this lofty mandate will do more good than bad today is pretty daft since every automaker from America, to Germany, to japan and even to Korea will be effected by this. Historically speaking, CAFE does little but to bankrupt the companies that built cars people actually want and reward the rest for what the politicians want.

And there's far worse things for the environment than the evil automobile.
 

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That ad makes me want a caddy cavalier...I didn't know the details on the origin of the sunbird, interesting. Now why no cimmeron wagon or convertible
 

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And there's far worse things for the environment than the evil automobile.
Like excess idiots on the planet?

LIke India cough cough cough cant breathe through smog sorry. Or even China LOL again waaay tooo many people to deserve a gas guzzler in that nation. Worst places on earth easy.
 

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That ad makes me want a caddy cavalier...I didn't know the details on the origin of the sunbird, interesting. Now why no cimmeron wagon or convertible

It was more than just the Sunbird. Buick and Olds had the Skyhawk and Starfire. Both half hearted Monza(Vega) badge jobs. That wave of brand erosion started when they split the Nova into the N.O.V.A.s (Nova, Omega, Ventura, Apallo)

Like excess idiots on the planet?

LIke India cough cough cough cant breathe through smog sorry. Or even China LOL again waaay tooo many people to deserve a gas guzzler in that nation. Worst places on earth easy.
I still think GM should be trying to hock their lackluster Volts as Chinese Buicks or just have every automaker beta test electric cars in those countries in general. If they're soooo viable and soooooooo inevitable as the future of transportation, wouldn't the greatest testbeds be there? Might even clean their air :rolleyes:
 

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Well I guess Obama wants everyone to drive a Prius by 2025 :)
 

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Well I guess Obama wants everyone to drive a Prius by 2025 :)
Let's not make this Political. Keep to the topic of CAFE. I could make a good counter-point to that statement but I'm going to leave that sleeping dog lie.

Personally, I wish they'd invest more in mass transit and electric maglev bullet trains to move people.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Agreed. And fix and just as importantly improve and expand the freaking highway infrastructure.

I changed the title btw.
I thought something was up! Hey, my ADD makes me easy to confuse!!!!

:D:D:D


As for expanding the highway infrastructure, it's already too big. Look how many roads are basically crap when you head up north and you'll see what I mean.

I just think there are too many roads now - would save this country a lot of money to just eliminate maintaining some of these roads that are flat out NEVER used...
 

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Its real simple to get high MPG lighter cars. My parents Renault Alliance (European not US version) got mid to upper 30s. My dad's 90 F150 get 22mpg I-6 300; my SC gets 18mpg City ~300 bHp; wife's 5.0 MN-12 gets 28+ highway.

People have demanded more and more JUNK in their cars weight has skyrocketed, and while yes Peak HP has gone up I doubt power below ~2500RPM has.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Its real simple to get high MPG lighter cars. My parents Renault Alliance (European not US version) got mid to upper 30s. My dad's 90 F150 get 22mpg I-6 300; my SC gets 18mpg City ~300 bHp; wife's 5.0 MN-12 gets 28+ highway.

People have demanded more and more JUNK in their cars weight has skyrocketed, and while yes Peak HP has gone up I doubt power below ~2500RPM has.
+1 That IS the easiest way to get better mileage. MN-12 with all aluminum drive train (engine block, drive shaft, differential & LCA's) from a Mark VIII, aftermarket exhaust system and a fiberglass hood is much lighter than any factory MN-12.

And who needs a spare these days! AAA will take care of ya! lol
 

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+1 That IS the easiest way to get better mileage. MN-12 with all aluminum drive train (engine block, drive shaft, differential & LCA's) from a Mark VIII, aftermarket exhaust system and a fiberglass hood is much lighter than any factory MN-12.

And who needs a spare these days! AAA will take care of ya! lol
I'm almost there. The only thing I'm missing from your list is the aluminum diff. :D

I'm doing my part to make my car "Greener" :tongue:
 

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I thought something was up! Hey, my ADD makes me easy to confuse!!!!

:D:D:D


As for expanding the highway infrastructure, it's already too big. Look how many roads are basically crap when you head up north and you'll see what I mean.

I just think there are too many roads now - would save this country a lot of money to just eliminate maintaining some of these roads that are flat out NEVER used...
I agree but improving exits and entrances and adding lanes to existing roadways that ARE frequently used could help with some traffic congestion. Idling and crawling isn't good for MPG

I am up north. 53 needs to plow through Long Grove, the Elgin Ohare needs to go to at least ONE of those locations and an extra lane or two as well as some eliminated and extended exit/entrances on a few of the city arteries wouldn't be a bad idea IMO As it is it's all inadequate and wasteful.

+1 That IS the easiest way to get better mileage. MN-12 with all aluminum drive train (engine block, drive shaft, differential & LCA's) from a Mark VIII, aftermarket exhaust system and a fiberglass hood is much lighter than any factory MN-12.

And who needs a spare these days! AAA will take care of ya! lol
And a can of fix a flat and a portable pump takes care of it in a jiffy as well. Tons of new cars come with that in lieu of a spare these days.

Its real simple to get high MPG lighter cars. My parents Renault Alliance (European not US version) got mid to upper 30s. My dad's 90 F150 get 22mpg I-6 300; my SC gets 18mpg City ~300 bHp; wife's 5.0 MN-12 gets 28+ highway.

People have demanded more and more JUNK in their cars weight has skyrocketed, and while yes Peak HP has gone up I doubt power below ~2500RPM has.
Very true but you're forgetting one thing. "Safety". Apperently there's no such thing as too many airbags and ever more strict pedestrian safety standards require taller bodies(thus more steel)
 

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Did the Fed just kill the muscle car?

Quote:
Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne told the Detroit Free Press that V8-powered cars like his company’s Dodge Challenger will become as “rare as white flies” under new fuel efficiency standards announced by the Obama administration yesterday.

The new regulations, which will require a fleet wide fuel economy average of 54.5 mpg by the year 2025 will “change the way the industry operates” and means that automakers must deploy significantly new technologies and must change the way cars are designed, according to Marchionne. "We are struggling with some big choices we need to make," he said.

Chrysler officially supports the new targets, and Marchionne believes they can be met, but the company currently lacks any high mileage hybrid or battery-powered cars in its lineup while offering four popular vehicles from its SRT high-performance division that are powered by a supercharged Hemi V8 engine and get 17 mpg combined or less.

Next year, the Fiat brand will begin selling a low-volume electric version of its 500 microcar, but Chrysler’s further efforts in the alternative fuel arena are unclear. Less so is the introduction later this year of the 640 hp V10-powered SRT Viper supercar, which sounds like it could end up being the only thing rarer than a white fly.

Get ‘em while they last.
 
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