[bsiebert]

I'm about done with my PI intake swap and COP conversion on my 95 Thunderbird. Here is a picture of it almost complete.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ysK6ZSjBm7ag-PScHWA2Ow?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_AIy_NLzTRUs/S5dBhstWHcI/AAAAAAAAACY/tlzBwXEEqgY/s144/0309002342a.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/111580570173705798581/Pictures02?feat=embedwebsite">Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/X_-Z_uJuNEgD4LuZkDXzfw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_AIy_NLzTRUs/S5dBiLO2WaI/AAAAAAAAACc/hyD_mCzL1Kk/s144/0309002342.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/111580570173705798581/Pictures02?feat=embedwebsite">Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

With that I seem to have a list of questions.

The first question I have, is about fuel rails. My original fuel rail, which has a supply and return I believe does not bolt up to my new intake. The fuel rail that I took off the new intake obviously bolts up but does not have a return line connection, and an addition has to be look like some sort of sensor with a vacuum nipple on it. On the left in the picture is my original fuel rail, and on the right is the new one. I'm just wondering if I can put on the newer fuel rail and just leave the return line, or plug it, and if I need to plug in that sensor on the end. Or should I find a different fuel rail from a certain year that will bolt right up?

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5b7n7o7Aed4Eg2NkGaAV2A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_AIy_NLzTRUs/S5dBhHtjnjI/AAAAAAAAACU/j52j2hm6Uyg/s144/0309002338.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/111580570173705798581/Pictures02?feat=embedwebsite">Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

Secondly, I replaced the heater hose two with a newer tube, obviously to make the new intake fit, but I noticed on the old one there must be a temp sensor on it. So my question is that what do I do with the wire that plugged into this sensor? Should I run it into one of the sensors in the front of the intake or should I somehow splice that sensor into my new heater core tubing? Below is a picture of the old tube.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pHUhPma-cM77rhM_53BhDw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_AIy_NLzTRUs/S5dBi6UoVMI/AAAAAAAAACk/2NyFxi-VI9w/s144/0309002338a.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/111580570173705798581/Pictures02?feat=embedwebsite">Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

My third question is about my EGR delete, I know this is controversial, and some may disagree with my decision to do it but oh well. It has to deal with these 2 sensors in the picture below. Do I cap these vacuum lines off and leave them plugged into the harness or should I just omit them all together? I know one of these sensors is a EGR position sensor but I am unsure of the black sensor on the right.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BAVfzW4icQ9-Ig6rTP-jaQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_AIy_NLzTRUs/S5dBiRncMFI/AAAAAAAAACg/6QENqbcjtG4/s144/0309002341.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/111580570173705798581/Pictures02?feat=embedwebsite">Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

Last question had to deal with my throttle cable, seems to be the mounting bracket makes the cable about an inch to long, any suggestions? I didn't seem to find any cable adjustments as I have seen on other cars, is there a bracket off of a certain car that will work?

Well that's about all for now, I'm sure I'll find some more questions but oh well. Any help at all is much appreciated, and hopefully I can get this car out and running within the next couple of days!!

Brandon

 

[master486]

Information about the stuff needed for this swap is all over the forums here.

For the fuel rail, you can't use either one you have. Using a returnless fuel rail isn't as simple as capping off the return line you currently have. The entire system is different from the fuel pump all the way to the computer. You need a fuel rail from a 96-97 MN12.

For the heater hose, that sensor is for the Semi-Automatic Temperature Control (SATC) controls. It is called the cold engine lockout switch and is used to prevent the blower motor from running when coolant is tool cold to provide heat and the fan is set to AUTO. So you can either add the sensor inline with the new heater hoses (there are pictures on this forum detailing this) or just leave it unplugged. Leaving it unplugged will simply disable this "feature" of the SATC.

For the EGR, ditch both things in the picture. You can then eliminate all the vacuum lines associated with the EGR. I assume you are going to cap off the EGR fitting at the manifold. It would be foolish to have the EGR tube still attached and try to plug it somehow.

For the throttle cable, this is why you need the cable from a 96-97 MN12.

 

[tinman_72]

Fitting a 96/97 fuel rail is the easiest but you will also need the fuel line that runs from the fuel filter to the fuel rail.
I seem to recall that you can also use the fuel rails from a late 90's Mustang. I also remember someone claimed to use fuel rails from a Crown Vic without changing the fuel line but the rail had to be flipped around.

 

[bsiebert]

Fitting a 96/97 fuel rail is the easiest but you will also need the fuel line that runs from the fuel filter to the fuel rail........

Is the fuel line needed because its the wrong length? I mean could I make it work for a couple of days before I replaced it? or do I absolutely need the line from the filter?

Thanks for all the input Master I appreciate the help!!

Brandon

 

[tinman_72]

If you look at where the lines connect to the 94/95 rails it is near the middle. On the 96/97 it is closer to the back corner. (Or maybe the other way around, it has been a few years since I did the conversion.) I don't think you can pull the hard fuel lines to make them reach the newer style rails. The fittings are the same, they just won't reach.
I seem to remember that someone was able to cobble something together (AN fittings or something?) but I preferred to just get the right lines to make it look factory. If you decide to get the factory parts you will have to find them used; the 96/97 rails and fuel lines are obsolete.

 

[bsiebert]

Alright thats what I thought. Thanks again!

 

[bsiebert]

Well I found a fuel rail off a crown vic that works... so I went to start the beast and I get nothing. So I pulled the fuel supply lines and found that I wasn't getting any fuel. Here is what I did step by step after.

1. checked inertia switch, was fine and red button was in the down position
2. checked wiring, I did have to break open the harness for the COP conversion, everything looked fine to me, a buddy and I double checked our wiring countless times.
3. put a voltmeter to the black/pink wire going into the inertia switch and it is getting about 11v on average when key position is on
4. ran a wire from the battery to the green/yellow wire on the inertia switch and the fuel pump came on and spit gas
5. put a jumper wire in the inertia switch connector, to make sure inertia switch wasn't bad, and the same thing happened, no fuel pump noise

So in my conclusion here I have about 12v going to the inertia switch, my fuel pump works, but when I plug everything in like it should be normally, the fuel pump does not come on. I did some searching and saw that somehow related is the cooling fan to this. Now before I did the swap, I think at least, my cooling fan would not turn on if the key was just in the on position (unless i just had been driving and was really hot, not the case here), but now after the swap as soon as I turn my key to the "run" position the cooling fan turns on. Now I also read that this DPFE sensor wires were common to melt together, I believe I have eliminated this sensor all together. Ive been looking at some alldata wiring schematics and all I get is the one pink/black wire running to the inertia switch, which then turns to green and yellow which goes to the pump. There has to be more wiring to the pump right? I'm sure that I screwed some of the wiring up, but if anyone has any ideas that would be great, I'm running out of things to check.

Brandon

 

[master486]

It sounds like you messed something up with the engine harness that is affecting the computer. The computer has to command the fuel pump to come on by energizing the pump's relay. When the fans come on right away, something is wrong.

 

[bsiebert]

In the wiring harness behind the intake, there is 2 junction type things where about 8 or 9 red wires go into, well I took them apart to rewire some injectors because the harness would not reach. Are these junctions, they look like a bunch of wire melted together then covered with a hard melted plastic, providing power to the injectors, fuel pump... etc? I wonder if that's where I went wrong?

 

[master486]

Try this first. Unplug the engine harness from the bulkhead connector (the one with the 10mm bolt) and don't forget the smaller 8-pin connector next to it. If the fans no longer come on, you know for sure the problem is in the harness.

 

[bsiebert]

Awesome, another thing to try!

And you were right.... the fan does not turn on. has to be the wiring then. The only real thing that I cut into was that power splice, i wonder if the PCM is not getting power, which is then not giving power to the fuel relay etc.

 

[master486]

The PCM doesn't get power through the engine harness. It provides power to things. If the computer is working properly, you should observe the following when you turn the key to ON:
1) The CEL light comes on.
2) The fuel pump runs momentarily.

If these aren't happening, you need to start checking the fuses, but I doubt this will be the case since the fans were coming on and, as I said earlier, the PCM is what controls them.

 

[bsiebert]

1. The CEL does come on..
2. I do not believe the fuel pump is coming on at all. The only way I can get gas to the fuel rail is if I run wire to the inertia switch.

Been gone a couple of days... helping my parents move and gut there new house. I'll be hitting it hard again this week to try and figure this mess out. I appreciate all the help!

Brandon

 

[bsiebert]

Got it figured out. I went over some wiring and the DPFE sensor wires were touching. So now it runs and sounds really good but I have some more problems if anyone wants to help me diagnose it.

1. high idle
2. no brake pressure... I could barely stop my car.
3. cooling fan doesn't come on

has to be a vacuum problem I'm assuming.

 

[General Zod]

sounds like a vacuum leak to me

 

[master486]

Now you need to check the vacuum tree on the cowl right behind the intake elbow. Make sure it isn't broken (it is plastic after all) and nothing is disconnected. This line feed the brake booster and a number of other things.