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I think the solution is poly, the problem of course being that it will take someone with a lathe and experimentation to find a proper durameter of poly to use. Too soft and their will be too much movement, too hard and they will fracture or worse break the strut rod if over tightened due to bind.
By what I can find the OEM ones should be 70A durometer.
 

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Between Amazon and eBay i was able to get a whole set, minus sleeves. About $100 total including shipping. Ill get sleeves from Jay When the time comes.
 

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So you were the guy! I couldn't get the folks at Amazon to reply before they sold. :tongue:
 

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I am just now getting to this repair on my '98 MkVIII. I have already done the upper control arms and tie rods, both inner and outer, and now will order the remaining parts before I take it apart. Since the last post was April, what success have you found with other vendors? Our local Ford parts guy says he is sure he can obtain sets if I am patient. What does he know that others are missing? I only plan to do this once. Being new to TCCOA, I have found having another resource welcome, plus you guys are educating me on interchangeability. My car is stock, except for a set of Fondmetal 17's, running 225/60's. Thanks
 

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I think most people install the thermoplastic bushings with the "bullet pointing forward" at the subframe just like I did the first time as shown below.

There were no instructions with the Moog kit I got, so I put the bullet forward because that's the way the OEM setup looks.



Since I was getting the familiar steering wheel oscillation, I called Moog tech support and the guy I talked to was able to dig up a technical drawing for the kit itself.

As you can see from the drawing, the more conical bushing is actually the rear rod-to-sub-frame bushing.



So I pulled everything apart and reinstalled the bushings with "the bullet pointed to the rear" as shown in the picture below. I had to use the split replacement sleeves because I mangled the OEM ones getting the bushings out.



This was in April of 2013 and the feedback was noticeably reduced, but still there. So I just threw my hands up and said, "Oh, well."

Later that October I was checking the brakes and noticed the master cylinder fluid level was a little low. I filled up the master cylinder to the correct level and the oscillation disappeared. I posted this on my project thread, but decided to wait a while and see what happened before posting on this thread.

After putting several thousand miles on the car since driving it to work, here are my thoughts on the thermoplastic bushings:

  • They work fine if installed correctly per the Moog technical drawing
  • Resonance will occur when the pads and rotors wear down and brake line fluid pressure decreases to a certain point
  • "Pumping up" the master cylinder when the brakes are worn will add pressure and temporarily eliminate oscillation

The car drove normally with no bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation in months of normal usage as a daily driver.

I will be replacing the pads on the car soon and the oscillation that has slowly crept back as the brakes have worn down should be eliminated.

The thermoplastic bushings have worked fine for me since October of 2013. It is important to note that my '97 LX is a non-ABS car. That may or may not make a difference, but it is worth pointing out.

My general perception is that if the TP bushings and sleeves in the kit are installed correctly, bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation will only occur if hydraulic line pressure falls below a certain point due to normal brake wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
I just wanted to clear up a few things with your post.
Later that October I was checking the brakes and noticed the master cylinder fluid level was a little low. I filled up the master cylinder to the correct level and the oscillation disappeared.
These 2 things should not be related. As pads and rotors wear the fluid level in the master cylinder drops. This is normal. When new parts are installed the caliper pistons have to be pushed back into the caliper and the fluid level will go back up. As a side note, if you top up the reservoir with worn pads, then do a brake job later on, the fluid will overflow and make a mess.
[*]Resonance will occur when the pads and rotors wear down and brake line fluid pressure decreases to a certain point.
When your foot is not on the brake pedal, brake line pressure should be zero. The wear on the rotors and pads should make no difference.
My general perception is that if the TP bushings and sleeves in the kit are installed correctly, bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation will only occur if hydraulic line pressure falls below a certain point due to normal brake wear.
Again, brake line pressure should remain at zero unless you actually press the pedal. (Please note that drum brakes do maintain a small amount of pressure, 13psi or so near each drum)
 

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I just wanted to clear up a few things with your post.

These 2 things should not be related. As pads and rotors wear the fluid level in the master cylinder drops. This is normal. When new parts are installed the caliper pistons have to be pushed back into the caliper and the fluid level will go back up. As a side note, if you top up the reservoir with worn pads, then do a brake job later on, the fluid will overflow and make a mess.

When your foot is not on the brake pedal, brake line pressure should be zero. The wear on the rotors and pads should make no difference.

Again, brake line pressure should remain at zero unless you actually press the pedal. (Please note that drum brakes do maintain a small amount of pressure, 13psi or so near each drum)
I installed the TP bushings wrong the first time and got the same bad result as everyone else.

I installed the bushings correctly the second time per Moog's tech drawing, topped of the master cylinder and the steering wheel oscillation went away.

It worked fine until the brakes wore down further. The resonance happens with the TP bushings when the hydraulic line pressure reaches a certain threshold because the pads are not maintaining the same pressure against the rotor.

If the fluid level in the master cylinder is not the culprit, then maybe it's the condition of the brake fluid itself. The car is 18 years-old and that's probably how old the brake fluid is. Does BF break down over time?

Fluid pressure and signal strength are subject to attenuation as distance increases.

It's as off-the-wall as why the TP bushings don't work in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with a custom solution to the problem at all. I just know mine work fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
The stupid forum software didn't save my detailed reply. :bangwall:

Basically brake fluid absorbs water and should be flushed every 2-3 years. High water content can lead to rust in lines, low boiling points and other general brake problems.

Worn rotors and pads can also contribute to vibrations both while braking and while driving. Dirt buildup around the caliper seals, rusty caliper pistons and dry caliper slider pins can all lead to a dragging brake which can cause vibrations.

There is zero brake line pressure on disc brakes until you step on the pedal.
 

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I know from my old Navy days that hydraulic lines may resonate when a ship's rudder is moved, at least on some of the older ships.

Steam lines can do the same thing. Maybe the TP bushings are just more sensitive to hydraulic line resonance than the OEM ones.

I discovered the brake fluid solution by accident BTW. :)

The TP design is completely different from the OEM one and Moog should have at least included a tech drawing with the bushing kit.

My perception is that someone could easily wind up chasing their tail from a troubleshooting standpoint if the brakes are also worn on their car when they install the TP replacement bushing kit.

All I know is at a minimum you WILL get steering wheel feedback if the front and rear strut-to-frame TP bushings are incorrectly reversed when they are put on. That's pretty easy to do without instructions because the conical OEM bushing is installed in front of the sub-frame.

Without instructions or a tech drawing, most people probably mimic the OEM setup and install the conical TP bushing on the wrong side of the sub-frame.
 

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After trying my luck on Ebay I managed to collect almost all the bits I need to rebuild my front end. The OEM Ford bushings cost a pretty penny and involved pulling the buy trigger on a zero feedback seller but it's all here now.

Now the real problem is figuring out what to do about the sleeves for the strut rod to frame bushings. Even though my Cougar is a garage kept Arizona car with 76,000 original miles with consistent bad luck it seems unlikely the old ones will be usable. If I'm wrong please please tell me. Sorta don't want to tear it apart till I get everything to together.

Anyone have the all of the dimensions of them? The oem stuff looks totally different from the after market junk. The pic on the first page is helpful but with a bit more info I may be able to get something made.
 

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Or, you know, you could contact Jay Richmond ( 98Mark8LSC here) and buy his units.

RwP
 

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After trying my luck on Ebay I managed to collect almost all the bits I need to rebuild my front end. The OEM Ford bushings cost a pretty penny and involved pulling the buy trigger on a zero feedback seller but it's all here now.

Now the real problem is figuring out what to do about the sleeves for the strut rod to frame bushings. Even though my Cougar is a garage kept Arizona car with 76,000 original miles with consistent bad luck it seems unlikely the old ones will be usable. If I'm wrong please please tell me. Sorta don't want to tear it apart till I get everything to together.

Anyone have the all of the dimensions of them? The oem stuff looks totally different from the after market junk. The pic on the first page is helpful but with a bit more info I may be able to get something made.
Or, you know, you could contact Jay Richmond ( 98Mark8LSC here) and buy his units.

RwP
The $170 ones? No thanks.
Nope, the $135 ones.

They're 304 stainless steel and 360-degree TIG welded. They'll oulast everything else on the car....

As stated above, they're $135 shipped for the sleeves, but I also sell the Motorcraft OEM frame-side bushings for an additional $45 for the set.
 

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Nope, the $135 ones.

They're 304 stainless steel and 360-degree TIG welded. They'll oulast everything else on the car....

As stated above, they're $135 shipped for the sleeves, but I also sell the Motorcraft OEM frame-side bushings for an additional $45 for the set.
Good deal Jay! :thumbsup:

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned in the thread, the washers need to be opened up for these? Is this something you can do? :D

Joe
 

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Sorry, beautiful work but that isn't going to happen. Pulled it apart and it was actually was in nice shape. The bushings even look pretty close to new. I love Grandpa owned, garage kept , Arizona cars cars. My collection of OEM bushings will wait for another time.
 

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Good deal Jay! :thumbsup:

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned in the thread, the washers need to be opened up for these? Is this something you can do? :D

Joe
Yes sir. The holes in the forward washers need to be enlarged to 1" I.D. I can do that, if necessary, but I need the washers sent to me beforehand. I try to keep some in stock, to send out, but unfortunately, a lot people have forgotten to send me their originals as a core. Out of 10 sets of them, I think I only have 1 set left. :eek:
 

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@98mark8lsc, do these sell like hot cakes, or do you make these still? I *may* need a set when I get to this part of my suspension rebuild.

Also, is the $170 price for left and right, or just is per side?
 

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Looks like they're (sleeves) $135 and I do believe it's (2) for both sides. :)

Joe
 
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