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Front End Rebuild

6K views 33 replies 8 participants last post by  NetKeym 
#1 ·
Hey everyone! Finally got my HID retrofit done. Now I can finally put my RobertP shift kit in, once I get free time. I also have a one piece aluminum drive shaft coming. I really wanna get a traclok and lower gears but I'm afraid 150,000 miles wore out the front end. So, what is everyones experiences, good and bad, with motorcraft, moog, and raybestos? Thanks everyone!
 
#2 ·
"How about an official suspension parts list thread"

This stickie at the top of this section has all the answers to those questions






And yes after 150k your front end is probably beat up from the feet up and needs a complete rebuild. Hint it is easier to do it all at one time. Nothing has pissed me off more than chasing front end problems. If its all new then it will ride like it. Just dont go cheap
 
#4 ·
I didn't read the whole "Things to check if you hear clunking from your suspension," but I read the other ones. I didn't see any post that answered my question though. They're great threads with a lot of info but no solid answers. I'm getting one of these three and want to know what is everyones experiences, good and bad, with motorcraft, moog, and raybestos?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Moog - Don't use their strut rod to frame bushings. Only Ford for those. Be SURE to take care of the metal sleeves - they're not available anymore.

For everything else, Ford, Motorcraft, Moog, and TRW are all good. So far my ACDelco choices have been good also.

Raybestos - They have two families, the "We're as good as Moog! We swear so!" professional grade, and the "Quick! Ship it before it self-destructs on the shelf!" service grade.

I'd recommend Motorcraft or Moog, save for the bushings that MUST be bought from Ford as a Fomoco part.

RwP

Edit: I forgot, DLF makes stainless sleeves. You still need the bushings from Ford, though.
 
#7 ·
AWESOME! You already made my mind up! I appreciate it.



If you read the whole thing it would answer your question.

Im running mostly moog with ford strut rod bushings
I'll have to run through that one and read it all when I have a little more time. Thanks for the links! Moog it is for this guy. Except for the strut rod bushing. And yes, she's getting a FULL rebuild. I've been there chased that way to many times. ;)
 
#8 ·
I stand behind the professional grade raybestos products without issue, however I wouldn't use their service grade.

Just like I don't mind duralast gold brake pads, but wouldn't be dare use a set of valuecraft. Same deal.
 
#9 ·
That was why I was making such a distinction between the two :diablo:

I dunno, I'm staying away from them right now due to the dichotomy they have.

RwP
 
#10 ·
hehe, yeah I'm doing the same thing right now. my strut arm bushings are TOAST. started to get a really annoying rattle a few days ago going over small bumps in the road. was hoping it would be a torsion link or something simple... no luck

already went ahead and ordered the ford ones to my local dealership. and yes, those stickys are super helpful! Ive seen and read about enough failures of MOOG bushings to not try my luck, even if I'm not driving aggressively. just kind of wondering where I'm going to get my hands on the big washer things. looks like mine are rusted to nothing... might have to buy a moog kit anyway just to get those stupid things XD. ill ask the part desk when I'm getting the bushings about it, maybe they have a part number for them.

the frame bushings however... are like $150 at ford i guess, so I'm gonna pass on those for now, they seem pretty stiff still.

already replaced my upper wishbones with moogs, pretty happy with them so far, love how they have zerks, the motorcraft ones i looked at didnt >.>
 
#11 · (Edited)
bleh, got the bushings but i totally forgot about sockets to get the dang thing off, anyone know what size that nut is on the LCA side, probably somewhere around 24mm I'd guess. other then that, here's hoping the sleeves arnt toast when i get it off >.> washers are still OK but theirs some sort of big round ring on the rear side of the LCA sticking out past the bushing and washer, not sure what that is... kind of looks like a giant lock washer... guess ill find out when it all comes apart :D

also... it IS possible to get that strut arm out of the LCA without unbolting it from the car right? i'm kind of hoping once i get it all loose i can swing the LCA back and off the strutarm, but the more i think about it the more i'm sure it wont work... or ill tear the LCA bushings...
 
#12 ·
30mm for the strut rod nuts.

And if you're removing the LCA, yes. If not, no. Well, not without running the back, front nut all the way back to collapse the strut to its shortest length.

RwP
 
#13 ·
that's what i thought... awww well, i guess ill be taking the whole thing out of their >.> hopefully i don't start finding everything else is bad too XD could get expensive fast. guess ill have to figure out how i'm gonna re-torque the LCAs while the cars on the ground. don't really have drive-on stands or a lift to use... well, i suppose i do have some stands i think, but i doubt i could 'drive-on' them since their designed for pickup trucks...
 
#15 ·
well crap, cant say i didn't expect that... my lower balljoints are toast, and my torsion link rubbers are all torn up, but not loose yet. went ahead and put it all back together with the new bushings for now. that thing doesn't move at all anymore. but i have a set of Moog lower control arms coming on Tuesday, as well as the links >.> guess my 'change the bushings' plan turned into a full front end rebuild :D well, at least most of it, those big frame strutarm bushings are pricey... and i replaced my upper control arms years ago. and my struts are in surprisingly good condition.

also, the nut on the end of that strut arm is 15/16... so i didn't have the socket i needed till today. and you pretty much have to break loose everything to have enough room to get that strut arm out of the control arm. but i couldn't get the bolt out of the strut, so we ended up popping it out of the frame and off the spindle and twisting it on the strut.

ended up jacking up the whole car off the stands by the lower balljoint to re-torque the LCA

at least till tues i can enjoy not having that annoying rattle in my passenger side fender well XD
 
#16 ·
On my Mark VIII (same bushings), I just did my strut-to-LCA bushings today; the nut is 17mm I think on that end, the other end (strut-to-frame) was bigger - probably the 15/16" you're talking and I just loosened it with a small pipe wrench. LOL

Turned out my strut-to-frame bushings were fine, so I put those back on and replaced the strut-to-LCA bushings; they cost me $21.44 for the MOOG K8680 set with discount from Advanced Auto.
 
#17 ·
yeah, i didnt even have a good crescent wrench. my dad has all his tools at work where he needs them. so when i need to do something, we usually have to drive into town and get what we need from his work >.> all i have is a Craftsman 200 piece ratchet set and some other odds and ends myself... so far :p

also I've read nothing but bad reviews and complaints on those Moog problem solver bushings. especially from here on the forum, so i got the Ford originals to be safe. we sell them at my work, and i opened a box to take a look, and they seem SUPER hard and really cheep looking. nothing beats a good piece of steel reinforced rubber.
 
#18 · (Edited)
The Moog are problems? I thought those were the ones to buy - if it wasn't for that I could have bought the cheaper ones (MOOG was almost $40 before discount)! Well, I did the driver's side today and now it's finally done! Now I have to go get an alignment.

You should have seen me take out those strut rods - you would have said I was one of three things: Crazy, Stupid, Funny or maybe a combination of therein. After removing the nuts, I put a bottle jack between the tow tag on the frame and the outer tie rod. I jacked the LCA back that way until I could get the strut rod out!

It worked is all I have to say..... :cool:

EDIT: Oh, I saw Ralph's post #5 above about not using MOOG Strut-to-Frame bushings. I didn't change those after all because the ones that were on the car were in great shape. I only changed the Strut-to-LCA bushings and the new ones (MOOG said "improved design") were MUCH better than the ones I took off (which I think were original, they were broken up rubber with attached steel in the middle). Also, the MOOG are a nice pretty blue! rofl
 
#21 · (Edited)
bloody hell, the moog LCAs i got are zerkless... guess ill swap them for the masterpro's i know have zerked balljoints... hope the MPs are good quality, i know the moogs are, but i would rather have serviceable balljoints... and the link kits i ordered came without the hardware >.> sometimes i ask myself why i work for orielllys... they've been selling me stuff with missing bolts, nuts, and rubbers for years now... at least now i get a discount :rolleyes:

also, i thought most of the threads here about suspension and bushings say not to use the LCA side moog strut arm bushings? is it also the LCA to frame ones too? i don't remember reading that, but if their the 'pretty blue' problem solvers... i wouldn't use them anyway since the web is full of pics of failures of those things on just about everything... not just fords >.> i still say nothing beats a good old rubber bushing; as long as you keep oil off them.
 
#22 ·
Nall_One - the Moog zerk-less ones are teflon / nylon lined with tighter tolerances than the zerked ones.

I'm with you, but it ain't worth swapping, actually. Consider that the zerkless Motorcraft have lasted up to 20 years on these cars ... :diablo:

RwP
 
#23 ·
oh i know their decent quality. i just like the ability to put grease in them every oil change. makes me feel better.

what i really wanted was the Teflon coated plastic filled tight Moogs... WITH grease zerks. now that would last forever.
 
#24 ·
oh i know their decent quality. i just like the ability to put grease in them every oil change. makes me feel better.
You can always drill & tap a hole and put in your own Zerk fitting! :D
 
#25 ·
hehe, i thought about that, but the cap in the end looks kind of thin and weak, the fitting would probably fall out, plus punching a hole in the teflon inside for the grease would probably make it wear out faster. and with tighter tolerances i doubt i could squeeze grease into it anyway

ill probably just go ahead and use them, i trust Moog a lot more then i do MasterPro >.>

i just always thought moog was pretty much all zerked. even the torsion links i got are zerked... and all the moog tie rods i have seen are. and my moog upper control arms are zerked... just thought it was odd.
 
#26 ·
done :) ended up using those Moogs, well see what happens. the Moog end links however i don't much like... when you max the spindles one way or the other, the boots open up and expose the ball and grease inside...

otherwise i ended up removing the whole strut assembly's and LCAs because the bolts were rustwelded in and no amount of beating or airhammering was getting them out. had to cut them off with the acetylene torch :tongue: good thing i got whole new control arms, ended up having to burn the bushings all up to cut the bolts out.

now i just need to get someone to slap the elephant ears on their and align everything. marked the bolts and got the alignment close to where it was, but a good alignment job couldn't hurt. that way i can get the aggressive alignment numbers set up in the tech articles here.

soooo much tighter now. heres hoping when i head to work tomorrow their will be a noticeable difference in the way she drives :)
 
#29 ·
well, theirs definitely a MUCH tighter feeling in the suspension. plus i lost a clunk when turning corners that must have been the lower balljoints :p and with the lack of pulling to the right when braking because of the shot strutarm bushings, shes like a new car again :)

and yeah, it is 24mm, and some of the other things like the strut bolts and LCA to frame are 21 if i remember right
 
#30 ·
Pop Quiz

Well, my lower ball joint was creaking and popping, so I pulled it off today, here is a pic (I'm sorry about my crappy phone camera).

Can anybody tell me what is wrong with this LCA?

 
#31 ·
creaking and popping? ummmm, well i would first say grab ahold of the balljoint and pull it in and out, and shake it around, if theirs any movement at all besides the tipping and spinning motion its supposed to have, then its probably the popping noise. and creaking... usually when something creaks its becuase of lack of grease, or metal on metal rubbing somewhere. possible its also the balljoint. otherwise it could be anything that hasn't had grease service in a loooong time, or isn't serviceable with tons of age.

otherwise all you can really tell from the picture is that it IS a LCA from a bird, and its ummm black.... and maybe has a serviceable balljoint, and theirs still a strut bushing in it XD
 
#32 ·
Yeh, it's a crappy pic - sorry. Brandon got it right in another thread. There is a hole for a grease fitting in the bottom, but no fitting. The guys at the shop thought it got knocked out, but a closer look and it doesn't look as it was ever there!

I think it was installed without it. No wonder the joint went bad!
 
#33 ·
O.O wow... who the heck installed it?!?! they should loose their job. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to know if theirs a hole in the bottom of a joint, and a little fitting in a plastic package whats got to happen... round peg, round hole? /shrug aaaaanyway... oh yeah, that's whats wrong right their :D
 
#34 ·
Around here? Who knows. We see horrible work ALL THE TIME come into the shop.

This is a very poor town, less than 1000 full time residents and the order of repair usually goes like this:

1) Can I fix it myself?
2) Can my spouse/kid/brother/nephew/neighbor fix it?
3) Can we all fix it together?
4) Can we shotgun approach it and just start swapping parts?
5) Ok, the car is worse then we started - can we bring it to the shop?
6) Ok, the car arrives at our shop - where are all the pieces?

That's how it USUALLY goes unless it's old retirees that come to the shop on a regular basis.
 
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