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I was talking with my father the other day about engines, he's trying to teach me the basics and how they work. He's doing a great job of explaining these things to me, but now I have a question for you guys based on things that he told me.

Our V8s produce roughly little over 200 horsepower, right? They are 4.6L just like the new Mustang engine that produces over 300 without any power adders (turbo, supercharging). I could come accross as a n00b again, but aren't both of those engines roughly the same thing?

I believe the new Mustang V8 is a 3V engine compared to our 2V ones. So basically if:

1) we replace our heads with 3V or 4V heads
2) add perormance camshafts
3) newer intake manifold
4) add a cold air tube with performance filter (K&N thing right?)
5) I also assume better fuel pump

And with a poissible block work and new pistons, we could also be looking at 300 HP from our current engine? Am I right in this assumption?

I still find it silly how a Honda V6 can crank out 270 HP and our stock V8s do 208 HP. Any thoughts on my assumption (remember I'm still pretty inexperianced when it comes to engines)?
 

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Try comparing a stock 1.6l Inline 4 from 96 civic:
It runs at 106hp and 103 ft. lbs tq.

A stock 96 tbird v6:
145 hp and 215 lb lbs tq.

A 96 Accord has 170 hp and 178 ft lbs of tq.

(PS: look at tq)

You have to compare cars that are on the same platform - not just jump and compare a 10 year old car to a brand new top of the line car.
 

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MaleWhore
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my friends 04 N/A V6 grand prix makes something like 210hp when my 97 v8 makes 205...there is other cars out there that make more hp per cylinders...but what im trying to say is that it makes you feel kinda poopy what cars can do these days
 

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I have seen many birds on this site making well over 300, but that may be with a gt or explorer engine, then again some one might still have the stock engine around that range.
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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It's pretty east to hit 300 crankshaft HP.
There are a few of us right at 300 rear wheel HP.
KD's pull in blue,mine in Red.

Both cars are N/A.
JL
 

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i think we overlooked Johnnyx's question.

as I understand it so far with my 2 weeks of learning.... I think the 4v is just on the 5.4 liter blocks.... the 5.4 liter block is taller than the 4.6

5.4 blocks have a different upper intake and different diameter heads than the 4.6

So the 4v heads im 99.9999% sure they will not work on a 4.6

Please someone correct me if im wrong.

Now since the 05' stang is a 3v on the 4.6 liter block. Than I dont see a reason why the physical parts wont marry..... the electronics and EEC might be an issue.
 

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awdRocks said:
i think we overlooked Johnnyx's question.

as I understand it so far with my 2 weeks of learning.... I think the 4v is just on the 5.4 liter blocks.... the 5.4 liter block is taller than the 4.6

5.4 blocks have a different upper intake and different diameter heads than the 4.6

So the 4v heads im 99.9999% sure they will not work on a 4.6

Please someone correct me if im wrong.

Now since the 05' stang is a 3v on the 4.6 liter block. Than I dont see a reason why the physical parts wont marry..... the electronics and EEC might be an issue.
No,we didn't overlook his question.
And with a poissible block work and new pistons, we could also be looking at 300 HP from our current engine? Am I right in this assumption?
I answered that one-it's easily possible.
The 4.6L has had 4V heads in a few vehicles-the Cobra Mustang,Lincoln Mark8,and the Lincoln Continental.
The only 5.4L 4V's are in the Navigator,and the new GT.
The 3V 4.6L heads will bolt up,but the electronics and the adjustable cam timing are an issue.
JL
 

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my dad had a mark8.... I think it was a 97'....... if i remember correctly it had about 280 or 300hp. all I remember is that it was FAST and felt powerfull...
 

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johnnyx said:
I still find it silly how a Honda V6 can crank out 270 HP and our stock V8s do 208 HP. Any thoughts on my assumption (remember I'm still pretty inexperianced when it comes to engines)?
the VTEC feature of the newer honda's essentially run on different (hi-RPM) cam profiles about a set RPM point, usually around 5000 RPMs...and by running the different cam profile, the torque curve does not drop like it normally does.......it stays surprisingly flat.....so if torque is constant as RPM goes up, then HP will climb at a linear rate according to the formula HP = Torque x RPM/ 5252

the 32V 3.9L V8 in the Lincoln LS also puts out around 280HP and around 285 ft-lbs of torque...which essentially makes it as powerful as a Mark VIII....again, the EEC controls Ford's Variable Cam Timing which is key to making as much torque as our stock 4.6s with 0.7L less displacement, and as much HP as a Mark VIII 4V
 

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awdRocks said:
i think we overlooked Johnnyx's question.

as I understand it so far with my 2 weeks of learning.... I think the 4v is just on the 5.4 liter blocks.... the 5.4 liter block is taller than the 4.6

5.4 blocks have a different upper intake and different diameter heads than the 4.6

So the 4v heads im 99.9999% sure they will not work on a 4.6

Please someone correct me if im wrong.

Now since the 05' stang is a 3v on the 4.6 liter block. Than I dont see a reason why the physical parts wont marry..... the electronics and EEC might be an issue.
------------------------------

my dad had a mark8.... I think it was a 97'....... if i remember correctly it had about 280 or 300hp. all I remember is that it was FAST and felt powerfull...
So wait.... your dad had a Mark VIII, and you say there are no 4.6 4V cars out there? Ever look under the hood? :bangwall:

Yes 5.4L's have a different intake, and for that reason among the several I can think of, there isn't much point in going the 5.4L route. (especially if you want more than 240HP N/A.)

As JL has shown, it's not as hard as you would think to near the 300HP barrier N/A. Ported heads, aftermarket cams, headers, intake manifolds... (and hopefully with a forged bottom end) properly chosen and properly tuned can get you there with a 2V car. If you choose to go 4V, it's a whole new ball game, but the potential is bigger. 3V swaps would require basically a whole donor vehicle, so it's a bit too complicated and expensive for most people to do.
 

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Silver95Bird said:
So wait.... your dad had a Mark VIII, and you say there are no 4.6 4V cars out there? Ever look under the hood? :bangwall:
yes yes I know..... back in those days I was not into cars.... I just new it had a v8 that hauled butty.... untill JL pointed that out now, I had no idea. Thats why I said in my post "with my two weeks of experience" incase I said something stupid (as I did).
:rolleyes:

:) im learing im learing
 

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Discussion Starter #13
MadRussian said:
My 2V NA 4.6 makes over 300 at the crank.

It can be done, and its not too hard.

-Andrey

Me being a n00b, I'm going to write "HOW IS IT DONE!?!?" :) Joking aside, in a few steps how did you manage that number?

Also another general question, where can I find the new Romeo heads for sale (they are bolt on, without any adjustments, correct?)?

Finally, are there any bolt on 3V+ heads for the Romeo engine?

Once again, I'm apologize when it comes to my n00bness. ;)
 

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No offense intended, I just found it very ironic.

3V heads will bolt on, but the computer side of things would be quite a hassle. Definitely not territory for someone just starting to learn.

Look around, there are a few options... ported NPI heads, PI head swap, Ported PI heads... there are several options, it's mostly a matter of $ for the average owner. Before you start in on the heads, there are other things you can change like cams and intake, etc. There are lots of options, it's just up to what direction you want to go in.
 

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Johnny Langton said:
The only 5.4L 4V's are in the Navigator,and the new GT.
JL
So the Cobra R is now a 4.6L? The 5.4L's that have been swapped make power, it's just not something that has been tapped into by the people with MN-12's. Thats just my opinion. Leland has a nice 300 some rwhp 5.4L with some(sorry about this Jake) piss poor heads. Heads make a big amount of this power. If the heads will flow, you can make the power. I just wish he'd put some PI heads on it:D That is just my two cents and lets not start another 4.6L vs 5.4L thread please.
 

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Ah. A couple of other 4.6L DOHC V8-equipped Fords have come to mind. The Mercury Marauder and Lincoln Aviator. Both short lived unfortunately. :(

Speaking of the 5.4L V8 though, is the new SOHC 3-valve version used in the Navigator now just as good as the DOHC 4-valve version it replaced or is the DOHC engine just underrated? Both have 300HP and the 3-valve version even has 10 more lb-ft of torque at 365 over the 4-valve version's 355.
 

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Carlover007 said:
You have to compare cars that are on the same platform - not just jump and compare a 10 year old car to a brand new top of the line car.
Does that mean I cant compare a a 440ci 390hp engine from 1969-70?

America does have a dumb way of making big engine with no horsepower
 

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"I just new it had a v8 that hauled butty"


I drive a '98 Mk8 from time to time and personally I don't think it's fast at all.



My take on you & your Dad's questions...

1) We replace our heads with 3V or 4V heads?

3V head swap---------- Not worth the time and Effort plus the Electronics’ to run the variable timing adjusters and such would be a major issue.

4V head swap-----------Not worth the time and effort again. You cannot just "slap" 4V heads on a 2V block and call it a day, it would be cheaper to install a complete 4V motor if that is your passion.

Both swaps would require replacing more then just the heads.

2) Add performance camshafts? Cams are good for some gains but unless you do that job yourself it would not be a cheap install.

3) newer intake manifold?

If you mean "replace the 94-5 style upper intake setup with the newer '96+ style" then I'd say it would be cheaper to swap an Exploder motor in there (DO a search on that swap All Star). If you ment " Swap a new 3V intake in then you would also need the heads to go with it (read answer #1 again).

4) Add a cold air tube with performance filter (K&N thing right?)

K&N thing??? Dude?? Are you for real or is this a joke? If you are serious then I doubt you should be messing with anything just yet. I would start by removing your intake silencer (Do a search).

5) I also assume better fuel pump.

That will get you a better fuel pump to support a more powerful setup but that alone will not give you anymore power.



"So the Cobra R is now a 4.6L?"

I think JL was talking about stuff that is out at the present time.

Carry on,

-Scott
 

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Dr. FrankenCougie said:
"So the Cobra R is now a 4.6L?"

I think JL was talking about stuff that is out at the present time.
Yeah,And I actually don't really count that one-because using it for donor parts ain't gonna happen.
JL
 

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ITHURTZ said:
Does that mean I cant compare a a 440ci 390hp engine from 1969-70?

America does have a dumb way of making big engine with no horsepower
eh, its not so bad if you look at history... 500ci I4's that made 25hp in the 30's. Don't forget the business is selling cars... and saving costs is a big thing today... Not to mention the 4.6 was still in infancy in the 90's. Now modulars are nearing 15 years in production and ford is still pretty new with variable timing tactiics.

And btw... It's really grim to compared anything to honda. Honda is the best the best at what they do. Looks at bike history... the Cub set unbeatable sales records the first year they shipped to america, even when every dealer in the nation was laughing at them. Honda's are typically built like fine watches. Add technology that no one has been able one up like VTEC. Yeah... Im not a honda fan... but I wouldn't wanna compete with them in anything the company puts effort into. Ford just cant compare to that with crappy union and bean counter restrictions.

Oh yeah, dont forget that the 4.6 dyno runs also have some really nice curves... compare those too a peaky hard to drive 260hp accord. the torque still comes in a bit late, but the trucks have an intake to put that almost down to 1k rpm... better performance intakes WILL come.
 
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