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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, Im not sure if this has been discussed yet...but the GM 3.8 V-6 (especially) the 3800 series is a very good motor performance wise. What is so different about the Ford 3.8 n/a and the GM 3.8 and GM 3.8 3800?? In other words, what would an individual who owns a Ford 3.8 n/a have to do to the motor to make it equivalent with that of the GM 3.8? I know that the GM 3.8 3800 can push a car into the 15's/16's easily (15's/16's is what a 4.6 V-8 MN12 can do). What is the big difference between the 2 3.8 motors and if I wanted to get my car as fast as the GM 3.8 without superchargers, turbos, or nitrous, what all would I have to change? What does the GM 3.8 have on our 3.8? Also, could a Ford 3.8 n/a take on a GM 3.4 V-6, which was offered between 1993 and 1997?? I really want to know what the GM 3.8's (200hp) have on our Ford 3.8 n/a. (140-150hp;190 on the Mustang) Please don't say weight is the issue because most of the GM's with the 3.8 are only about 100-200 lbs lighter that ours. Without weight being an issue the GM 3.8 still pushes out 200hp whereas our 3.8 pushes out only 145...wheter the car is 1000 lbs or 5000 lbs, what is the reason of the big horsepower difference between the 2? Thanks, Frank
 

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Premium Member
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2 words...Split Port
The late model 3.8's are considerably stronger than the early na ones.
If I own another v6 car I will probably do a split port conversion on it.
Alan
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #3
Okay, so what is so special about te splitport V-6? Is it the pistons, heads, valves, what is it about the GM 3.8 Splitport that makes it so fast? I know one of the fastest American factory cars to ever roll off of the assembly line was the 1987-1988 Buick Grand National GNX. That too was ONLY a 3.8....Even without the Turbo on it, it would still woop a MN12 3.8 n/a's @$$. What is the Ford 3.8 Lacking that the GM 3.8 has. I'm trying to figure out why these cars are so friggin slow......Think about it alright? The 87-88 Buick Grand National GNX was one of the fastest American factory car to roll off the line and it had a 3.8. The 3.8 offered in the MN12 was the SLOWEST V6 of the 90's. The Mn12 V-6 n/a was one of the slowest CARS of the 90's. What is going on here??? They are both 3.8 litre V-6's. What is Ford missing in there 3.8 that GM has??? What is so special about a Splitport 3.8? :2huh: :2huh:

Before my brother bought his Z28, he had a standard Camaro with the 3.8 3800 series and it balled @$$!!! I know cause I drove it a few times. Even if we could take 300 lbs off of the MN12 3.8 n/a, it would STILL get it's @$$ handed to it by a GM 3.8, So weight isnt the issue. Even a damn Caprice Classic with a V-6 could beat the MN12 V6 and they have like 500 lbs on us? Where did Ford go wrong..ahhhhhhh!!!!!! I'm goin nuts!!!!! lol
 

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dirtyd0g said:
2 words...Split Port
The late model 3.8's are considerably stronger than the early na ones.
If I own another v6 car I will probably do a split port conversion on it.
Alan
Excuse my n00byness, but what exactly is a split port, and what all does one have to do for a split port conversion?
 

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I don't know exactly what makes the split port better,but I know it is a night and day difference in them. A G/N engine without the turbo is nothing. The 3.8's of that time were almost as weak as fords. The camaro's are a whole different thing as well. Yes they did make a little more power than the ford's did. The cars are also considerably lighter and they come out of the factory with a 9.5 inch 3000 stall converter. GM has made alot of different 3.8's. Try comparing Our cars to what is should be compared to. A 3.8 liter gutlass or something along those lines. Camaro's are sports cars,we Drive luxobarges.
 

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ghostfield said:
Excuse my n00byness, but what exactly is a split port, and what all does one have to do for a split port conversion?
Late model mustang engine I believe 98 up ,but I'm sure there are a couple people around here who can tell you exactly what you need to know. Or you can try a search.
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #7
dirtyd0g said:
The cars are also considerably lighter .

This is what gets me.....a few hundred pounds shouldnt make a huge difference. My car is about 3500-3600lbs for the 1996 3.8's? My brothers Camaro was 3400lbs. Even if weight was the issue in racing, it still doesnt explain why Fords 3.8 puts out 145hp and Gm's 3.8 puts out 200hp. As i said, A Caprice Classic of the 1990's with the 3.8 could probably woop a MN12 3.8 and THEY are like 500lbs heavier than us.........
 

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again split port.

the design of the intake-heads of the 1990s 3.8 ford wasnt the best , but it got corrected in 1999 when the splitport version of the 3.8 came out with 200hp , the difference is in the intake runners.

als dont compare the 3.8l turbo to a 3.8n/a compare it to the SC version , both made about the same HP stock , the advatage of the GN is obviously the turbo.

actually the SC made more HP at the crank than the GN , but the heaton eats up like 50hp.
 

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The Parts Guy
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cool dude said:
My car is about 3500-3600lbs for the 1996 3.8's?
Probably more like 3800-4000 lbs. MN12's are pretty heavy cars.

ghostfield said:
Excuse my n00byness, but what exactly is a split port, and what all does one have to do for a split port conversion?
There's plenty of info on this forum about the swap, from way back when PJ did the 4.2L swap and I did the 3.8L splitport swap. It's a fair amount of work.

The splitport 3.8L uses completely different intakes and heads than the singleports. Basically, there are 12 intake runners, 2 runners per cylinder. Each cylinder has a long intake runner and a short intake runner feeding it. Long runner = great low end torque, short runner = ability to flow higher in the rpm range. Some of the splitport intakes have IMRC's in the short runners, which are butterflies that open at a set rpm (promotes higher velocities in the long runners at low rpms = more torque).

Anyway, the splitport 3.8L or 4.2L is a night and day difference from the singleport 3.8L n/a. Trust me.



-Rod
 

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racecougar hit it on the nose.

for the record, IMRC = Intake Manifold Runner Control
 

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Formerly Fdawg97LX
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racecougar said:
Probably more like 3800-4000 lbs. MN12's are pretty heavy cars.
with or without driver? my 97 4.6 bird weighed in at 3970 lbs with me in it. i weigh about 280 lbs. so that means my car wieghs about 3690 lbs. 3500-3600 lbs without a driver could be pretty accurate for a 3.8 bird.

Frank
 

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The Parts Guy
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Frank,

I was talking about without the driver. I guess it really depends on the car. I know of quite a few SC's that have weighed in over 4000 lbs (w/o driver). The M-90, IC, IC tubes, etc., don't weigh more than 200 lbs.

Just like how you can only tell how quick a car really is by the timeslip, you can only really tell how heavy the car is by what the scale reads.

-Rod
 

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for the record..

my car before the birdie was a 94 Lumina Z34.. it had the 3.4L DOHC V6 that had 215hp, 210tq. I used to be able to beat stock birds, cats, and stangs both V6 and V8 from 94-97.. the 98stangs gave me more trouble....and when the first 99 GTs came out, it was no contest for them.. hehehe soon after though i traded it in for the bird (2001) because after being rear-ended INTO the back of an Explorer Sport-trac.. she just didn't drive the same anymore.. talk about suffering from torque-steer..
 

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Stroked and Blown
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Discussion Starter #14
racecougar, what does your car run the 1/4 in now that you have the Splitport 3.8? Also, how much did it cost to do the swap? and how long? BTW The 1996-1997's are actually lighter than previous years by a few hundred lbs...it is posted somewhere on these boards i believe.......
 

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The Parts Guy
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I've only had the car to the track twice, and had problems both times. The first time I took it to the track it had a horrible bog off the line, and was only running low-mid 16's. The next time I took it to the track, the car was overheating as I was going down the track. I had to let off around the 1000' due to detonation, but it still ran a mid-16. Found out that the problem was just a blown fuse for the electric fan, but that was after I got the car home.

The car should be somewhere around the mid-high 15's. I'm not really that worried about it, since it's just my daily driver. The last time I had it on the dyno, it made 165 rwhp and 198 rwtq, with a very flat torque curve. :)

I probably spent close to $1000 on the swap, including the engine and transmission from a 2000 Mustang. However, I did all of the work here at my shop. It took quite a few months to finish it, because nobody had done the swap before.

-Rod
 

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the BIGGEST advantage is CONVERTER STALL SPEED....... My wifes 98' Olds Intregue with the 3800 jumps to ~3000rpm off the line, thats almost as much stall as I have with my 9.5" PI converter in my car (which cut .6 off) and ALSO the 3800 GM has alot more agressive cam stock than the ford 3.8L I believe they are in the 200-205 range for duration and the lift is more than a 3.8L ford.
 

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rancherlee said:
the BIGGEST advantage is CONVERTER STALL SPEED....... My wifes 98' Olds Intregue with the 3800 jumps to ~3000rpm off the line, thats almost as much stall as I have with my 9.5" PI converter in my car (which cut .6 off) and ALSO the 3800 GM has alot more agressive cam stock than the ford 3.8L I believe they are in the 200-205 range for duration and the lift is more than a 3.8L ford.
Actually they are basically the same converter. The PI converter was built from one of those.
Alan
 

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racecougar said that the intakes and heads are different on the splitport, so could we take the heads and intake off of a splitport mustang and put it on our engine?
 

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The Parts Guy
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joeytbird7 said:
racecougar said that the intakes and heads are different on the splitport, so could we take the heads and intake off of a splitport mustang and put it on our engine?
Yes, but it's not as simple as just bolting them on. Do a search in this forum, and you'll find quite a bit of info on the swap.

-Rod
 

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Don't GM's 3.8s also have a higher compression ratio than Fords 3.8
 
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