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Discussion Starter #1
Remember yesterday when I got fired. well...today I was bringing my girlfriend to the mall and a cop pulls me over out in the middle of rush hour traffic and starting chewing me out about how I shouldn’t be punching it to hit the speed limit because he can give me a ticket for it and that I'm lucky I didn’t get one today.

I also found that my website and emails are now down due to a retarded company...my rear left rim just got scratched up by some #*@*[email protected]*$&(@)$&(@$(*&@(&$(&@$&(@(&*[email protected]([email protected](* IN WALMART! Argh, that's what pisses me off the most, I park in the middle of no where, some little Junker parks beside me and scratched the hell out of my rim.

This all boils down to one thing for me, the other day, about 7 hours before I got fired too, my parents and I were talking about god, you know, me I never went to church and was brainwashed with all the evolution crap at school. I said, and I quote my self, "If god's real, why hasn't he ever shown me a sign, whether it be good or bad?” I now believe in god more than I ever have before in my life because it's not merely a coincidence that all this happened after I said that.

Thanks god for waking me up!

Just wondering, who believes evolution in here, and who believes in god?
 

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First, let me say I think this belongs in the political forum as it will be sure to turn into a rep vs dem arguement... lol

As for my answer, let me answer your question with a question.

If there is a god, where was he on the morning of Sept 11, 2001? How about during the First World Trade Center bombing? Or the Oklahoma City Bombing? Or.....

You can see where I am going. I do not believe in a god / supreme being. I believe in science.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's the same way I used to be...until all this sh..crap happened all at once right after I said where is he!
 

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Litning said:
First, let me say I think this belongs in the political forum as it will be sure to turn into a rep vs dem arguement... lol
I'll second that. :thumbsup:

I'm also going to keep my mouth shut on this one. :D
 

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i too dont believe in a "supreme being". im more science than anything else, you really thing animals and crap have been the same for the past 6 million years(or whatever) of earths existence? things change with time. your recent turn of events is just pure coincidence that you have done to yourself, not god.

lemme ask you this:

did god make you push the gas to speed?
did god make you get fired?
did god park by your car and bust up your rim?

no. you did. people need to stop blaming their f ups on other things and start blaming themselves. i know its easier to blame someone else but hey, life goes on.

i think people believe in god because they feel insignificant when they look up at the sky, and they need to believe in something so they feel like theyre not alone in the universe.
 

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First off, God hates nobody. Not one single being, animal, plant or rock. Not even Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden. Not even Eric Pelezo. He loves everybody with unending compassion, patience and perfect understanding.

Where was God when the planes hit the WTC? He was protecting the THOUSANDS of people who made it out alive. There were over 10,000 people in the buildings. only 3,000 lost their lives. The rest? God was watching out for.

Since the beginning when God created Adam and Eve, he blessed / cursed us with free will. You are granted by Him the ability to make decisions on your own. He has laid out plans on how He wishes you would progress with your life, but He will never force you to follow His plan. If you deny Him 10,000 times, but on the very next time ask Him to be there for you....He has promised He will.

Let me tell you just one reason I KNOW God not only exists but abides on this earth every day. A few years ago, I was going to Kansas City to fly out to Vegas. It was about 7:30 on a Sunday night as I came through town. I was on I-435, the loop around/through the city, traffic is running along at 60-65mph when up in front of me I hear tires sqeal, a crash and see a car spin around in a 180 across from the shoulder rail to the median rail. I stop (one of the only cars that did) as did a MO State Trooper who happened to be coming from the other direction at that time.

The car was a Chevy Corsica with 5 adults in the car. There was a woman in the car going absolutely hysterical about something. Come to find out she'd been holding a 15 month old baby in her arms in the back seat, but the baby was not in the car. The trooper and I both started looking for the baby expecting to find the worst...it laying in the middle of the interstate where traffic was still flying by.

We walked up and down the median and found nothing. We then went into traffic trying to stop it with just a couple of flashlights. At this point there was still no sign of the baby. I prayed silently that it was ok as I'm standing in the middle of a 3 lane interstate in the dark holding up traffic.

Emergency medical crews finally arrived were appraised of the situation. At this particular point in the road, there is a guardrail on the shoulder because about 2 feet passed that rail there is a steep slope down about 25 feet into a dense, brushy area. The EMT's scanned up and down the road and shoulder looking and found nothing. Then finally about 10 feet from where the car struck the rail, was a little baby girl unharmed except for one small scratch on her cheek.

This may seem like not much but do the math. The car was supposedly cut off on the freeway and swerved hard to the right sliding into the guardrail at 55-60mph. The impact with the rail was hard enough to break the rear passenger window and the baby flew out. She was found immediatly on the outside of the rail a mere 10 feet from the point of impact. She also remained asleep or unconscious until the EMTs were there to take care of her.

Can you explain that with science or logic or anything else? I think not. My take on it is this. It's as if there was an Angel just sitting there with a catchers mitt to catch that small child and keep her from harm's way. The situation could have been SOOO much worse, but by the grace of God that small child was spared. If I never live to see another miracle, one was all it took. I was a believer before this, but He granted me an opportunity to see his wonderous works up close and personal.

Every time I tell this story I give thanks to Him for all He does....both in my life and in others'.




Oh, and evolution? Gimme a break. There is not ONE shred of evidence to support it so many thousands of things that lead one to realize that there HAD to be some form of intelligent design to it all. Do some real research, more and more scientists are shying away from the evolution idea. It just doesn't add up.
 

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Sir William said:
Where was God when the planes hit the WTC? He was protecting the THOUSANDS of people who made it out alive. There were over 10,000 people in the buildings. only 3,000 lost their lives. The rest? God was watching out for.
I am glad everything turned out alright in that accident. There are too many times they do not.

As for the 3000+ who lost their lives on that day, why was god not protecting them? Maybe it was "their time". I am sure that 99% of those people did pray for thier lives to be spared, those of who did not perish immediatly. Why did god not spare their lives? Why did god hurt their friends and family with the loss of a loved one? If god does exist, why didn't god stop the attacks from happening to begin with?

These are all questions that I feel no one can answer. People have told me that it was "god's design". Other's have told me "it just must have been their time". One even told me that god isn't perfect. I am sorry, I just have a hard time believing that someone who loves and protects all his children would let such atrocities to happen.

I do not want to get into a pissing match with the religious people. This is by no means an attack on religious people. This is just my way of trying to understand my fellow human being's thoughts and beliefs.

John
 

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Litning said:
First, let me say I think this belongs in the political forum as it will be sure to turn into a rep vs dem arguement... lol

As for my answer, let me answer your question with a question.

If there is a god, where was he on the morning of Sept 11, 2001? How about during the First World Trade Center bombing? Or the Oklahoma City Bombing? Or.....

You can see where I am going. I do not believe in a god / supreme being. I believe in science.
Much of my sentiment echoes Sir William's, but just to add to what he said:

Why is it that God should allow nothing bad to happen? He makes no such promise in His word and in fact it is made clear that there will be trouble, death, disaster, and war.

Also, as SW said, we all have free will, every single one of us has chosen to sin, and that means we don't live in a perfect world.

Also of note for example on September 11th, 2001, the planes were definitely not full, and there were quite a few people who didn't show up to work that day. As he said the majority of the people in the towers got out alive. God was at work protecting and guiding through the bad times.

Finally, we as a nation have collectively asked God to leave through kicking prayer out of just about everything, legalizing the murder of miraculously created unborn children, attempting to criminalize the very mention of his name. Why should he stay in this place?
 

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Science cannot prove or disprove God's existence, and each can explain everything. so despite all the fighting, they can co-exist without conflict.

the reason for such fighting is because the church is stubbon and makes claims like evolution is a crock or the earth is the center of the universe. each time science proves the church (not god) wrong.

IMHO, beleiving in God is a good thing for someone who needs to believe in something bigger than themeselves. Atheists feel the same way about science. The differenece is simply faith or logic.

The problem is the organization of the religion, with leaders telling people how they should interpt the bible. Now that a high number of people are literate (compared to the dark ages) each person can read it and deciede for themselves how to interpt the words.
 

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Sir William said:

Can you explain that with science or logic or anything else? I think not.
Just to comment on this...

Without saying anything about God, I believe anything of physical/atomic nature can be explained with Physics and Mathematics. We just have to have the mental capacity to do so. Something as simple as skipping stones has quite a bit of math behind it.
I think it's fun to sit down and figure out why something acts the way it does. That's why people like Hawking are my heros. ;)
 

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miraculously created unborn children .... ok, hmm ... if this were the 1500s, i could say that was a possibility, but with todays technology, you can go in, have knee surgery, wake up, and essentially walk out ... before long it will be to that. medical science has proven its usefulness time and again, and if every birth that had complications ended badly, then this world would not be as crowded. it would be the 'unsick' that make it ... it would more than likely help rule out a lot of natural diseases ... back in the day, qa doctor would make sure you were breathing, heart pumping, and whatnot, then say if you will live or die ... heck, in the civil war, they would SMELL the wound to see if it was gangrenous ....if this makes no sense, sorry ... its my thoughts .... as far as my religion, i am wiccan ... not devout, however those are the beliefs and 'laws' i live by .... i'll touch on this more later ...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This is why I have such a hard time trying to figure out what to believe.

I've heard valid points from both sides of the 'bench' so-to-speak.

I personally always believed that the mind could not comprehend the creation of life as we know it, so some crazy guy died on a cross to make everyone believe his way. My questions were always "Well, if there's a god, how come every religion has a different god?" and "If he's here, why doesn't he show him self or prove that he is alive?" and last but not least "If there's all this commotion about god, why is there no solid proof that he exists, why is there no original written documents or proof besides what people thought they saw back then, him rising from the dead to be more exact?".

But I mean, I have to think of it two ways;

I pushed that gas pedal.
I decided that I was tired of getting yelled at.
I decided to go to wal-mart on that day to get a pack of gum.

I personally lean more towards god now, although man does do everything such as build computers, etc, but I also believe that god does not interact, merely influence.

To add to a more personal story of believe, my little brother was a preme, he weighed four lb's and was two months early and he plays everyday like anyone else.
 

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EPelezo said:
This is why I have such a hard time trying to figure out what to believe.
All I can say, and I think most here will agree, go with your heart. If you feel that there is a god/supreme being, then there is. If you don't believe, then you don't believe. That is the great thing about living in America. You can believe what you want without someone telling you what to believe.

Now for a question for those of you who DO believe. Is there just one god? I have often wondered what religious people thought on that subject...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I believe there is a supreme human being that created all life as we know it; however, I do not believe he interacts as most believe. I believe that all things that we blame on god saving or punishing have to do with chance and luck.
 

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Science proves nothing. It just provides evidence for theories/observations/etc. All we have to go by is our reasoning and logic.

Second, would anyone want to live in a world where a supreme being intervenes in our lives? We would become dependent on God and not on ourselves.
 

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EPelezo said:
This is why I have such a hard time trying to figure out what to believe.
Don't worry about it.....The Earth will keep turning, and we've got about 500,000,000 years to go before photosynthesis breaks down and roughly a 1,000,000,000 years before the ol' sun runs out of gas and starts losing grip on its material. The surface of the sun will be about half way to Mars by the time it's done swelling and then it will simply cast off its remaining mass as gas and dust leaving behind a planetary nebula and a little hot dot of carbon called a white dwarf.
But long before our star putters out, we will no doubt be in store for another very large impact.
Sort of makes 9/11 look like child's play doesn't it. It'll happen, and you can place money on it.


....so just believe in whatever makes you feel the best.
 

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Go read " Left behind" series of books. It pretty much explains GOD's plan. It won't be nice and pretty. All of us are sinners. If we ask for forgiviness in the name of Christ the Lord, It is written that GOD will forgive us and then test us. I'm not harking on those that do or don't believe but, remember this; the non-believers will still be cast into the eternal fires of hell. I say: "NO THANKS!" I'll take my chances with GOD. If he wants me then I'm his. We belong to him anyways. All religions have a god. In some deep dark passage of the bible somewhere, it says that all gods are the one GOD. You are loved by him whether you want to be or not. I just hope I'm not to late. I really believe that Christ is coming to rapture HIS church soon. Sorry if it sounds like I'm preaching, that is the way I feel about it. It is not up to us to try to look for and make excuses for why HE does what he does. Just live with it and look forward to a better life when it is our time to go. Just ask for forgiveness and you will get to live with HIM and HIS son. God bless everyone!
 

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bad93bird said:
the non-believers will still be cast into the eternal fires of hell.

I really feel sorry for all those Buddhists, Hindus, and many native tribes around the world who's beliefs predate Jesus and Christianity itself by a number of years. :D Sucks to be them I guess.
 
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