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Confirmed V6 Nut
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I've been scouring Hot Rod and Car Craft magazines for any and all mentions and articles about running E85. There's a place in western WI, Extreme Engines that converted a 68 or 69 Charger to E85. Saw the pic of the car on a Dyno flog in last month's Hot Rod, or was it Car Craft? Come to think of it, it was Car Craft because it was a Car Craft event in Minneapolis. Makes sense because the WI shop was about an hour outside of Minneapolis, due east of Cannon Falls, MN.

I've found an E85 board that where a guy is just running his explorer on E85 with no mentioned mods, but conceeds a chip or programmable tuner would make the mixture better.

Any experience out there?
 

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well, I work at a ford dealership in sales, and I know some things about E85, but just enough to sell the E-85 compliant cars :) . Anyway, this would void the warranty, obviously, and could cause some damage. I wouldn't just run straight E-85 or even very much mixed in with normal unleaded. my sales manual say to point this out!!!!!;)

-Rog
 

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PostSlut
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roger said:
well, I work at a ford dealership in sales, and I know some things about E85, but just enough to sell the E-85 compliant cars :) . Anyway, this would void the warranty, obviously, and could cause some damage. I wouldn't just run straight E-85 or even very much mixed in with normal unleaded. my sales manual say to point this out!!!!!;)

-Rog
even in a new car that is a flex fuel, or able to run E85, it says "not" to run it unmixed.........thats weird.
 

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Don't quote me on the actual numbers, but running E85 decreases fuel economy and decreases hp/tq. So you have to factor that in when making the decision to switch. And those are numbers (whatever they "actually are") are for cars that are flex fuel.

Good reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

wiki said:
The primary differences from non-FFVs is the elimination of bare magnesium, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system, the use of fuel pumps capable of operating with electrically-conductive (ethanol) instead of non-conducting dielectric (gasoline) fuel, specially-coated wear-resistant engine parts, fuel injection control systems having a wider range of pulse widths (for injecting approximately 30% more fuel), the selection of stainless steel fuel lines (sometimes lined with plastic), the selection of stainless steel fuel tanks in place of terne fuel tanks, and, in some cases, the use of acid-neutralizing motor oil. For vehicles with fuel-tank mounted fuel pumps, additional differences to prevent arcing, as well as flame arrestors positioned in the tank's fill pipe, are also sometimes used.

wiki said:
For example, recent tests by the National Renewable Energy Lab on fleet vehicles owned by the state of Ohio showed about a 25% reduction in mpg
Everything I've researched is that it really isn't cost effective to convert. You can buy a lot of regular gas for the amount of money you will spend to do the conversion. :D

Just my .02. :thumbsup:
 

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Confirmed V6 Nut
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Discussion Starter #6
Roger,

95 Bad Bird is right about the warranty. There has not been a warranty on my car for years. It is almost 10 years old with 110,000 miles on it.

Daily Driven.

I've been doing a LOT of research. The American Engine Rebuilders Association says there is nothing different about the engine itself. www.e85forum.com has some helpful links. I have a Hot Rod magazine where a Charger with a big block was running E85 on the Power Tour. The engine was built by Extreme Engines in Wisconsin. Sorry, no URL.

Basicly the information I have is that you need bigger injectors and a chip to get the most out of E85. Just treat it like 110 octane and build your engine accordingly. Figure to use 11:1 to 14:1 compression and a big cam and as free flowing heads as you can find.
 

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dan 94 dd is right , unless you want to go thru the engien to make it higher compression, its just the fuel system that is a concern, personally e85 isnt the answer and isnt worth the time to get less fuel economy and more $$ for the fuel your better off with gasoline
 

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we are not talking about bio diesel, we are talking about e85 , differnet situation,
bio diesel is a good solution, i wont argue that. but in the non diesel powered cars, gasoline is still the most efficent fuel and the fact that the late model efi cars are cleaner than they have ever been.
 

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PCD said:
Basically the information I have is that you need bigger injectors and a chip to get the most out of E85. Just treat it like 110 octane and build your engine accordingly. Figure to use 11:1 to 14:1 compression and a big cam and as free flowing heads as you can find.
That is what I had found also. To get the same power/efficiency out of E85 as you get out of gasoline, you have to up the compression and build the engine specifically for E85. That is if you want to get the most out of E85, and then of course, you now can't fill up with gas if you need to.... All of this sadly just adds (considerably) more expense to the conversion.

So maybe best case scenario $2000 to $3000 for the complete conversion (engine/tune/fuel system). Assuming you get the same fuel economy, how much cheaper is E85 than gasoline? Factor in monthly miles driven, and simple math will tell you how long it will take you to recoup your initial investment.

Over the last couple of years I have researched everything that I can possibly think of and nothing beats gasoline (actually diesel) for cost and convenience. The hybrids are a very good solution, but you're looking at a minimum of $10K for a used Hybrid... :bawling:

I can buy a lot of gas for my Aspire for $10,000 and my Aspire is faster than an Insight.... I think.... :D

Now it they would come out with a battery that would last 400 miles, could be recharged in 3 minutes, and weighed 20 lbs… now that would be a solution. :D
 

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PostSkank
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I'm a little interested in E85 myself for a project car. I'm not worried about fuel economy since its a weekend sort of car anyway. I've toyed with the idea of building a high compression motor for it. Just for kicks mostly.
 

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Why would you convert your weekend car to E85?
 

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There are 2 separate advantages of E85. One is to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, and the other is to allow the use of high compression and high boost with a low cost fuel.

The first is a way to use our farms to put a dent in the foreign oil demand, and it is just getting started on that. It is not to give you a overall cheaper fuel, it is to make more fuel available. I have read many articles about it that say it uses up to 40 percent more fuel, which is mostly put out by big oil to discourage its use. E85 will use 20-25 percent more fuel. There is a local Shell station here that sells it. Last month I checked the prices for there 93 octane which was $2.40, and E85 was $1.85 a gallon. This will balance out equal in cost per mile. It burns a lot cleaner, and does reduce our demand on foreign oil. It is a alternative fuel, that works.

The next use is the performance guys. If you are running a high performance engine that needs high octane fuel, E85 is a VERY GOOD choice. Ethanol like Methanol, lowers the air/fuel temp, which is great for reducing the need of backing off timing to prevent pre ignition problems. The low cost of E85 become a REAL bargain when you have a choice of higher octane or running less timing or less boost.

If I had a blown FI engine, it would be set up to run either, and have a flip chip, and one program would be for E85. It would be set up so I could run 15-25 psi of boost on E85, and run 7-9 psi on 91 octane. On carbed engines putting the fuel in farther away from the valves, the air charge temp drops even more. One of my buddies runs a methanol fueled drag car, and the carb base and upper part of the intake are frosted when he pulls back into the pits.

My Brother In Law runs his Super Gas Roadster on E85 now, since the cost of E85 is half the cost of methanol, and almost 1/4 the cost of racing gas. E85 gives very close results to methanol, and runs very close times in different temps, like methanol.

Here is some good reading on using E85 with boost.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0

This Winter my Bird will be getting 10-15 psi of boost, and converted to E85.

If you run 87 octane gas now, you will spend more per mile. If you need 93 octane, and want to up your boost, E85 is a good candidate... :)
 

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Agreed. It all depends on why you would want to do a conversion. E85 definitely has it's advantages. :thumbsup:

But for me, it's a moot point... to my knowledge there is not a single E85 gas pump in the whole state of Alabama!!! (yet) :beek: :bawling:

Maybe I'll do the B6T swap (1.6L turbo = stright bolt in) to my Aspire, raise the boost and run E85. That would give me more hp/tq and lower my monthly fuel bill. Hmmmm, looks like I need to do another cost/benefit analysis. :D :znanner:
 

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Confirmed V6 Nut
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Discussion Starter #16
Let me put my aspirations this way, I already was building up my V6. I have a cam, Mustang Splitport intakes, F-150 heads that I'll be putting bigger exhaust valves into, Cats for a 2 1/2 true dual exhaust.

I was planning on a chip or programmable chip set up. I was putting in a larger fuel pump and I'm checking out if it is better to get an alcohol rated pump or stick with the gas rated one.

My engine is already EFI with a DIS ignition.

Also, I live in Corn Country. There are Ethanol plants open or opening all around me. When I move, I'm even thinking of getting the federal permit and make my own alcohol for my own E85. I've seen this mentioned in one of my latest Hot Rod, Car Craft, or Popular Hot Rodding magazines.

If anyone was looking at these magazines, I've had both questions about engine parts and E85 published in these magazines. I'm "Serial" about this. Only thing holding me back is $$$$ to get the final parts, gaskets, and mechanic time.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
SupidFly,

I've been in Switzerland. The gas prices were horrible back in 92. I hate to think of what they are now. I can see why E85 would make sense.

Have you looked at making your own alcohol and maybe going 100% alcohol?
 

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PostSkank
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PCD said:
SupidFly,

I've been in Switzerland. The gas prices were horrible back in 92. I hate to think of what they are now. I can see why E85 would make sense.

Have you looked at making your own alcohol and maybe going 100% alcohol?

heh, I should probably qualify my location. I'm just here for a year at a univeristy. I'll return to sunny Tucson, AZ and my t-bird when I get done here.

But yeah, gas here is a leeeelte expensive ;)
 

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I agree about the fuel mileage lost, but in my 2001 cougar I had (not a flex vehicle) I actually saw a serious power improvement. It was almost scary compared to 93 unleaded. I guess the power gain/loss depends on individual vehicles and their timing adjustment abilities.
 

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Basically for the cost of conversion, and lower power/economy, I would e a big waste of time and money. They work fine for vehicles that are manufactured to accept it!!!! Bio diesel is probably the next best thing to Real gas. Yes E85 was really all designed to do exactly like what was said up there, Decrease dependency on foreign Energy, aswell as create Jobs and keep or money HERE!!! As of now, there probably is not an effective fuel analogy for our cars, simply put.
 
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