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Discussion Starter #1
Here are some pictures from my header installation. I am replacing suspension bushings and stuff right now too, so I already had the lower control arms off. I disconnected the lower end of the hood struts and put the hood up farther for a hoist from the ceiling. I hooked a chain to the engine and a come a long to a hook on the ceiling (which is attached to a big I-beam that goes from wall to wall of the garage).



The hood was held here by a long piece of wire that I tied to the latch hook on the hood and tied around the door post. You can see I wrapped towels abour under the wire to protect the paint.


Then I tightened the come along up, took out the bolts for the engine mounts to the k-member, and then removed the K-member. I put a jack under the k-member to lower it down.

Having the K-member out of the car made it really easy to put the 1 3/8" sway bar on there. Stand over the top of it and hit the 4 bolts with an impact.

Here is a picture witht he headers bolted up from underneath the car with no k-member.


This is one way to do it. It was convenient for me since the engine was in the car and I already had all the suspension off doing other things. It took several socket, swivel, extension, ratchet drive size combinations to get to all the bolts to put them in and get them tight. Some bolts zipped right up, some were 1 or 2 ratchet clicks at a time. For these headers I also had to shorten a tranny line a little to get it in closer to the tranny so it wasn't hitting the header. If you are planning on an install in the future and were looking for ideas, I hope this helps somewhat. With the comealong I was able to move the engine up and down about 8 notches as needed without ever disconnecting the radiator hoses. Lowering the engine helped make things a little more accessible. A cherry picker would also work real well for this I am guessing and would problaby allow you to do it without tipping the hood up. If you do tip the hood up like this, make sure you don't go any farther than necessary so there is not danger of it falling backwards! I don't think that would make you happy, would problaby damage the hood and windshield I am guessing.

Here are some pictures of where the headers hit:
Driver's side frame rail. Had another picture of this but accidentally erased instead of uploading, it was just without the flash from farther back so you had more reference as to where it was. It was the rear tube on the drivers side hitting:

Left and right side floor, although now Dan has told me that the floor needs to be persuaded out of the way to make room. We talked about doing that but since the other areas were hitting we decided there wasn't much point in doing it.


Passenger side frame rail

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That is strange that they do not fit around the starter. Do you have a starter off of a mark VIII or Cobra on there?
 

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Judging by the clearance under the car you ride is not dropped?
 

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your starter is going to fry.....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The car is on 6 ton jackstands that are extended as high as the jack would go to give room to work under the car. The car has Eibachs on it...well not right now, it has no front suspension, but normally it has Eibachs on it.

It is a Mark VIII starter. Never seen a Cobra starter even. Yes yes, if there was some clearance, I would just get some wrap for the starter, but since its against the starter, that doesn't seem so good, probably just rub through the wrap?
 

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still thinking it will fry the starter or shorten the life even with the wrap around it.....
 

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mmm, looks like fun:zpuke:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dr. FrankenCougie said:
Why did you leave the hood on?

-Scott
Easier than taking it off, i.e. because we're lazy. You could very well take it off too. This is just an option. Don't have to lift it off, don't have to work on getting it lined back up right, etc.

Joe, those are the ART headers.

Chuac, that is why they aren't still bolted in there. Its not just touching, its pressing against the starter, no way wrap is saving it.

Man, you guys are focused. I was expecting at least one question about the surroundings.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You can tell in the pictures in the garage that it's a little farther a long now, this is right after it was painted.


 

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The bottom line I seem to be getting is these ART headers don't clear anything??? They hit the floor, the frame rails and the starter??? How about the shock towers, do they rest against them too????

You're saying the guy who sold them to you told you have to "pursuade" (I assume that means BFH) the floor out of the way to make them fit???? But you didn't bother because they "hit everywhere else," am I missing something here???

Are these a prototype you were given to test, or are these the finished product???

-mike
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Persuade would be a synonym to using the BFH. He made 10 sets of these and was selling them so they would be the finished product. Each side has one tube hitting in one spot. He says that if I beat on the floor with the BFH that the engine moving up into location would make them fit, but they way they are wedged in there I am not convinced, and this still doesn't solve the starter problem. This set would seeming ly have to be WAY out of spec for them to hit like they do.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
He offered to send me another set, but at this point I have spent a bunch of time on them, I know I will have to beat the floor up which I didn't know when I ordered them. And then I'm still not really sure they'd fit. It would really suck to spend more time beating up the floor, bolting them up and have them not fit. I am already down a weekend from trying to put them on. I already ordered the EGR tube that I had to cut off so I can put the manifolds back on. I just want to cut my loses. So I have asked to send them back and get my money back. I am going to auto x the thing this weekend. I already missed the first one. It took a week for the first set of headers to get from there to here. So that would put me with getting the new set next week, trying to put them on the following weekend. If that didn't work out I'd probably end up going to work on it the next weekend. I've already made more two hour one way trips with my beater Ranger to work on it than I want to. And its already been in my dad's way in the garage long enough. Its a good size garage, but two big cars in a good sized garage doesn't leave you lot of room to maneauver. I'm in Nebraska, no nice weather all year here, I'm losing racing season with every passing week. Already had two drag strip days and 1 auto x go by. If I wait for another set, I just lost another drag strip night and another auto x day.
 

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With no guarantee that the new set will fit better.. beating the floor won't help the starter issue, and if properly engineered and built, "bending" the car to fit the headers should not be necessary, anyway. The headers are supposed to be bent to fit the car...

Anyone that would sell something like this that is so labor intensive to install, not tell you the whole story about how they fit, and not tell you that you have to modify the car to make them fit.... well if he offered me another set, I'd say, "Sorry, send me my money back. I'll save a bit longer for Kooks."

I'm just sorry you had to find out the hard way.. But passing the word may save someone else the headache...

-mike
 

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4 Cam Bird said:
Here are some pictures from my header installation. I am replacing suspension bushings and stuff right now too, so I already had the lower control arms off. I disconnected the lower end of the hood struts and put the hood up farther for a hoist from the ceiling. I hooked a chain to the engine and a come a long to a hook on the ceiling (which is attached to a big I-beam that goes from wall to wall of the garage).



The hood was held here by a long piece of wire that I tied to the latch hook on the hood and tied around the door post. You can see I wrapped towels abour under the wire to protect the paint.


Then I tightened the come along up, took out the bolts for the engine mounts to the k-member, and then removed the K-member. I put a jack under the k-member to lower it down.

Having the K-member out of the car made it really easy to put the 1 3/8" sway bar on there. Stand over the top of it and hit the 4 bolts with an impact.

Here is a picture witht he headers bolted up from underneath the car with no k-member.


This is one way to do it. It was convenient for me since the engine was in the car and I already had all the suspension off doing other things. It took several socket, swivel, extension, ratchet drive size combinations to get to all the bolts to put them in and get them tight. Some bolts zipped right up, some were 1 or 2 ratchet clicks at a time. For these headers I also had to shorten a tranny line a little to get it in closer to the tranny so it wasn't hitting the header. If you are planning on an install in the future and were looking for ideas, I hope this helps somewhat. With the comealong I was able to move the engine up and down about 8 notches as needed without ever disconnecting the radiator hoses. Lowering the engine helped make things a little more accessible. A cherry picker would also work real well for this I am guessing and would problaby allow you to do it without tipping the hood up. If you do tip the hood up like this, make sure you don't go any farther than necessary so there is not danger of it falling backwards! I don't think that would make you happy, would problaby damage the hood and windshield I am guessing.

Here are some pictures of where the headers hit:
Driver's side frame rail. Had another picture of this but accidentally erased instead of uploading, it was just without the flash from farther back so you had more reference as to where it was. It was the rear tube on the drivers side hitting:

Left and right side floor, although now Dan has told me that the floor needs to be persuaded out of the way to make room. We talked about doing that but since the other areas were hitting we decided there wasn't much point in doing it.


Passenger side frame rail

Starter:

What are you tring to do ? Piss your car off ? It's not gonna talk to you for at least a week!
 
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