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Discussion Starter #1
I’m working on a deal for a 03 cobra motor and putting it in my 97 Lincoln Mark 8. I think I’ve got everything else ironed out except the biggest issue, and that is the EEC and the wiring. I would like to keep the 4R70W transmission and keep it a Lincoln, just a lot more pep. My concern is the wiring harness and the EEC’s. I know that the Mark 8 and the Cobra run EEC-V’s, but my concern is that since the cobra EEC doesn’t have provisions for an auto trans and the mark 8 doesn’t have provision for the blower stuff. Can those provisions be programmed in? In addition, if I run the cobra EEC will it work with the other Lincoln stuff in the car, or if I run the Lincoln EEC will it run the motor (which I doubt). I’ve been also looking at the Marauder computer but I don’t think its going to ft this application either.

If this is a very difficult / expensive task then it might be a showstopper and I’ll have to sell the new motor

I’m also looking at buying a twEECer soon so maybe that will help in my swap.

please help because the motor is just waiting for the green lite to ship!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Trans is WAAAAY covered. Plus I'm not going ape on the motor. 500RWHP is the VERY VERY max that tranny is ever going to see anyways. Plus A very good friend owns a transmission shop.

Darrin: are you offering help on the tranny or on the EEC programing because any and all help is greatly appreciated.
 

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Have you compared the actual pinouts between the two EEC's? The reason I'm asking is because even though the 03 is supercharged, how much is actually controlled by the EEC?

I'm not that up on the 03 engines, so I don't know. I would guess (and that's all it is) that the Mark EEC would "run" the 03 engine. They are both COP, so that shouldn’t be an issue, they are both OBD-II so that shouldn't be an issue. The only thing I don't know about is things like the intercooler pump (is it EEC controlled or some other way), is there a "bleed-off" valve on the 03 that is EEC controlled, and I have no clue on the EGR setup on the 03.

I would get the pinouts between the two engines and do some comparing before making a decision. IMHO, I would try to get the Mark EEC to work since you know it works with the 4R70W and a regular COP’s DOHC. But it will definitely need a tune!!! :beek:

But that is just rambling off the top of my head. :D

Let us know how things work out!!! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
94 Daily Driven 4.6L: I was thinking the same thing. I just found the pin out diagram for a 03 cobra motor and I'm about to go in the garage to get the pages out of the mark 8 manual to compare the pin outs. or do you happen to know where I could find that?
I know that the 03 cobra EEC has some stuff for a BAP sensor (???? reseaching???) but other than that its alot of unknowns.
 

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I think the EVTM (Electrical Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) has a section on the pinouts for the EEC. You would probably have to chase each ckt out to make sure they to to the same item, but all that information is in the EVTM. :beek:

There is no way I would try that swap without both EVTM's sitting next to each other. :thumbsup:
 

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94 Daily Driven 4.6L said:
I think the EVTM (Electrical Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) has a section on the pinouts for the EEC. You would probably have to chase each ckt out to make sure they to to the same item, but all that information is in the EVTM. :beek:

There is no way I would try that swap without both EVTM's sitting next to each other. :thumbsup:
Heh I'm starting to have ALOT of doubts that this will even work without some crazy FAST type system thats going to cost A MINT!!
 

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Don't give up yet!!! Here’s my "reasoning":

What is the difference between a stock Gen II Mark VIII with a Vortech and an 03 Cobra motor?

The bottom ends are “basically” the same, with the only difference being “how” the engine is boosted. So if you look at it from a standpoint of a Mark VIII engine with a “power adder” and not from a Cobra engine, I think you can get a handle on it.

But again, I’m not really that up on the Cobra engine. BUT no matter what, it is still nothing more than a DOHC 4.6L engine. Yes, you have issues with the return less fuel system, but that’s just a fuel system…. No big deal. Yes, you’ll have the issue with the transmissison/flywheel/Torque converter, but a Marauder flywheel, dirtydog’s TC and a very built 4R70W should cover that.

So all that is left is the electronics. Does the 03 have IMRC’s. (I don’t think so, so that isn’t even an issue. (Just tune them out of the EEC). All you need is timing and fuel from the EEC. And since the Mark VIII EEC has the inputs for the knock sensors, you’re already ahead of the curve. The biggest issue will be determining the fuel mixture with the boost from the roots blower. But if a fuel curve can be built for a centrifugal blower, one can be built for a roots blower. It will just require a dyno tune from the get-go.

Again, just my ramblings! I always try to just break things down into the component “systems” and then tie everything together. If not, you’ll go insane!!! :beek:

Good luck and if you do change your mind, you can ship the Cobra engine to my house.... :D
 

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PostSkank
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See if you can get in touch with Lonnie. He swapped a cobra motor into his MK8 (though not an '03 cobra motor). Hes a smart guy to begin with, but since hes done a mk8 cobra swap, he can probably help you get ready for alot of the real PITA issues.
 

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Well alot of the "experts" I talked to about this swap are not standing by their statements now.
I've got one guy Dan at A.R.T that seems very confident that this swap will work. If it does and he can comes through then I'll name my first born after him. I want this to work so bad and all my logic thinking says this will work and that its not brain surgery.

94 Daily Driven 4.6L: your right all that stuff (fuel, tranny, etc.) are just small stuff and your right that its still in its basic for just a DOHC motor. My thinking is that what about all the emission checking stuff that has to be in order before even the motor will start. its those kinda a things that keep it legal and safe that are some of the show stoppers on my mind.
 

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Ok, now when you start talking about working emissions.... :zbash: :leftright :beek:

But I do know that they can tune out the EGR system on a Gen II. When people have swapped over to the Cobra intake on the GEN II's, the EGR system is 1. A nightmare to get working; or 2. Very simple, i.e. turn of the EEC's inputs and outputs. Most people go with number two (and what I’ll be going with when I install my Cobra intake). :thumbsup:

And I’m not sure, but I think that to “start” there aren’t a lot of parameters that need to be set. Will you have a MIL…. Yeah, probably!! Will it “run right”…. Probably not! But will it run enough to see if you have leaks, knocks, explosions, etc… IMHO, yes. :thumbsup:

But when you throw emissions into the fray, you add another system. You'll have to fabricate the tubing from the Mark VIII exhaust manifolds (or headers) to the Cobra intake and then worry about all the PTFE (or whatever it’s called) sensors and such. But again, it’s just a “system”. Compare the Mark to the Cobra, determine what in mandatory and engineer a solution.

Get it running, read the codes and start knocking them out one system at a time. :D

Simple, right. :rofl: :rofl:

You’ve bitten off a big project but IMHO it is possible. Assuming you don’t expect it to fit under the hood!! :D :beek:

But then anything is possible with enough time and MONEY!! :thumbsup:
 

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I was all set to do this same swap for myself and had lined up the same swap for a 97 Tbird so I had done the majority of homework already. Unfortunately things come up that prevent such endeavors to happen as planned and I had to turn away the job. Hopefully things get back on track and I can at least have my toy.

Use the Mark harness and EEC. The emission stuff will all work if properly modified including the EGR. The Cobra EEC will not work in a Mark alone and would be very costly.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Lonnie:
In your research and with your extensive knowledge of the PCM do you think I can flash the car to recognize the new motor and safely drive the car? I dont know how different the table are between the 03 cobra and the mark 8 (you would know better than I) but my thinking and my 2 hours of research so far say maybe with a lean towards no. I know i'm going to have to "bastardize" my mark VIII harnes to add some of the thing the cobra motor needs its just if I do that what happens.
 

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You are going to need a custom program to make it work. Who ever programs it for you will have to build their own tables which shouldn't be a problem if they know what they are doing.
 

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Well from what we learned when thinking of what was supposed to be an 03 cobra swap into the bird Tydlwavs had it is going to take a lot of fabrication. The big problem you will find is the location of the alternator which conflicts heavily with the front subframe. His solution was going to be moving the alternator up in place of the air conditioning along with a rerouting of the belt. I am sure there was more and the swap never happened as he has since sold them both :(

-Miller
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yea I've been thinking about that also, but I think thats just a bracket fab and getting "creative" with the mounting and the belt run. Thats on my long list of things needed to make this happen. but I have to get the motor here first. I'm going to start ordering parts next week (fuel pumps, hard lines for the fuel, tube bender, 03 cobra head cooling mod, fuel rail, fuel regulator) those are the things I can get started on without the motor.
 

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Sounds like a hell of a project. Keep us updated with pics of he fab-up and install.
 

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The Parts Guy
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phreakness, where are you located near St. Louis? I'm in Imperial, and I just finished a DOHC swap into a 90 XR7, so I still have quite a bit of it fresh in my mind. If you ever feel like stopping by or if you need any MN12 parts, just send me a PM.

Also, if for some reason you decide not to go through with this project, let me know. I'd be willing to buy the engine from you. :D

-Rod
 
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