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Discussion Starter #1
First of all, I did a search and spent 2 hours reading about exhaust setups and now I'm more confused than when I started.

Second, I live in an area with no emmissions tests.

Here's the deal; my car came with two glass-packs in place of the front two cats. The resonator is still there. The 3rd cat is gone. There are two stock-like mufflers with turn-downs at the back.

The cats were replaced with glass-packs because they were clogged (160K miles).

I have the intake side breathing better, so now I would like to get the exhaust flowing WITHOUT LOOSING LOW-END TORQUE.

NOTE: I did none of this, the car came this way.

I have a good friend that works at a muffler shop and will do whatever I ask him.

What do you folks suggest?

1. keep the glass-packs and do the 2-1-2
2. keep the glass-packs and do true duals
3. Your suggestions

My main goal is performance, not sound (but a little would be good).

My muffler guy said the glass-packs were installed to keep the check engine light from coming on. Is this true?

I work for a university and I want to get this done during
spring-break (3-15 thru 3-19).

Thanks in advance.
Rob
 

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It depends on how far your going to go with your car. get a true dual system to start with. check out the A.R.T. system
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks FLABIRD, but my friend can do any exhaust work I ask. The problem is that we live in a small town and he has no experience with the MN12 except replacing stock components. This will be the 1st time either one of us has done a custom MN12.

So, I need the design and he can build it for ALOT less than the A.R.T. system.

What's really troubling me is the glass-packs in place of the front cats.
Are they necessary or not for the EEC?
Would they be the only mufflers I need?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Rob
 

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i had mine done in norman (going back again the 15th), and i had a 2-1-2 setup done with 3" main pipe for $160. i provided the mufflers. 2-1-2 would most likely be the cheapest, and with the right mufflers it can sound very good...

I dont see how the glasspacks can keep the CEL from coming on... If i were you, i'd just run no cats and get some MIL eliminators to keep the check engine light off.
 

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I'm with weswing04 on this. Dump the packs and run pipe inplace of the cats. Get some MIL eliminators (they got some REAL cheap ones on ebay, good thing= less money , bad thing= cut the wires and splice in resistors which makes it more of a pain to swap back to stock) I have the 2-1-2 on my bird... cheap way to go and sounds good (a little hummy tho at freeway speed). But if your friend wants a challenge, go duals!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks folks,

What mufflers do you suggest for the 2-1-2 or the duals so that I won't loose my low end torque?

And on the 2-1-2 what size pipe do you recommend on the 2 side.

same question on the duals.

And yeah my friend would like the challenge of the dual and would treat me real nice on the price (probably $50 + materials or less).

What is a fair price on the MIL eliminators?

thanks for your suggestions, they are really helping. So far I think I'll do the duals if the price is not too much more than the 2-1-2.

Keep em cummin

rob
 

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Discussion Starter #7
From what I have read on here, when the front cats are eliminated the CEL should come on.

As stated above, my front cats have been replaced with glass-packs.

My CEL has not come on since I have owned the car (about 3 months).

Is this normal, or do I need to troubleshoot the system?

Bad O2 sensor or what?

thanks
rob
 

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The previous owner may have put the MIL eliminators in when the glass packs were put on. Otherwise, the CEL may have annoyed the previous owner enough that he/she just pulled the bulb...had a friend who did that.

But I would go with true duals

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So you are saying that I definately should get the CEL without the front cats.

If there are no MIL eliminators and the CEL bulb is ok, then is there a problem?

If so, what do I check?
thanks
rob
 

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Well, in my opinion, you should be getting a CEL for no cats. BUT, b/c of the larger volume of the packs, it may be fooling the O2 sensors by diluting the air flow, but that would be very minimal, and initially it would work, but as soon as you get running, the packs would be full and the same amt of exhaust will be flowing anyways, so you should be getting a CEL. Does your CEL come on if you just turn the key on w/o starting it?? If it doesn't, you may be missing a bulb. Replace it and if it's on all the time, you have no MIL eliminators, but if its good, the previous owner may have done the splicing/rewiring on the O2 sensors to correct the problem. I have not the slightest clue how to do that, but I really wouldn't be worried about the rear O2's. They only let you know that your cats are up to snuff. So if your CEL is good, and no MIL elims., I wouldn't worry about it.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks, the CEL does come on with ignition.

I did read on one of the posts that the EEC might not trip a code if it was made before a certain date.

But the previous owner said that at one time the EEC was replaced, so who knows.

I will take your advice and just not worry about it and move on unless someone else says otherwise.

rob
 

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Do you know if there are MIL elims on there or not?? If not, the sensor wires have probably been redone. That's about all I could come up with for the prob. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If the MIL elims are on, they are well hidden.

What do you mean by the "sensor wires have probably been redone"?

I have not heard of this, please explain.

rob
 

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I was referring to what PSI Clone had said about cutting the O2 wires and splicing in resistors. The rear O2 sensors communicate with the EEC via ohms I believe, and if you splice in resistors to the existing wires, while leaving them in the pipes with no cats, you can send a signal to the EEC that shows a correct reading, although it's not right. Makes the EEC think there are cats there even though they are gone. I beleive the MIL elims do the same thing, just in a much more neat and easy way. Since you have the MILS, you need not worry about running with no cats, you'll be fine and the CEL will come on for other reasons...hopefully not...but if it comes on, it won't be for the exhaust. Sorry about the confusion about the wires being redone...I don't really know what I was thinking at the time :D

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK, spring break is over and I wanted to give you guys and update.

1. went with 2-1-2 with only the two stock-like mufflers in the rear (wanted to keep low-end torque and sound is not important since I have a [email protected] stereo and can't hear it anyway).

2. There is nothing but straight pipe between the front and rear O2 sensors and I am still not getting a CEL. Do I have an O2 sensor problem (160k on car). I am also only getting about 12 - 16 mpg. Could the front o2's be bad and if so, how do I check?

thanks for all your help
rob
 
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