What Makes More Power: Pi Swap Or 99-04 Gt Pi Motor?
Oh, I didn't forget you, but I actually met Eric in person, and saw, and raced against Eric's car ...A PI Cam, PI Headswap, Bullitt intake stocker with bolt ons and JBA Headers that made 257 HP and went 13.2's.
The same car that went 13.9-14.0's on the BONE STOCK 96 engine with bolt ons.
Really??? He never ran 13's at any of the events I attended with GB at Moroso ... of course the swap was pretty new then, and all the bugs were not out of it ... I don't think he had "proper tires" at the time, either - but I think I offered everyone the chance to use mine ... no takers, except Rob, I think ....Aaron K. was into 13's on just the explorer swap.
yep, 13.991........on street tires and 3.73sReally??? He never ran 13's at any of the events I attended with GB at Moroso ... of course the swap was pretty new then, and all the bugs were not out of it ... I don't think he had "proper tires" at the time, either - but I think I offered everyone the chance to use mine ... no takers, except Rob, I think ....
I stand corrected.... that's one ... Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa ..
Since this thread has been derailed already...
My car is fairly close to 13s at 14.15 on DRs. It has the explorer engine swap with comp 262 cams, 3.73s, 02 stang MAF, ported exhaust manifolds, 2.5" true dual exhaust, and a stock 95 trans with a large bolt pattern stock TC from a grand marquis. The other weight reduction was removal of the pass and rear seats. It put down 233 rwhp on Precision Autosports' dyno in 100* heat. I have NO other bolt-ons like pulleys or TB/plenum, and my shift points were all jacked up that day at Kil-Kare too.
Henry74 on here ran a best of 13.98 slipping on street tires. His PI head swapped car put down 209rwhp on Precision's dyno. His car just has the PI head swap, 3.73s, true dual exhaust, and a jmodded 99 trans with a 3500 stall DD TC. I don't think he has any other bolt-ons either. I'm waiting to see what he runs on a good set of tires. I don't really think that's too bad considering he doesn't have a ton of mods.
hey mike, i have a bone stock internal 99 gt motor in my car, so far its gone 13.8 @ 96 this is a stock PI engine w/ 60k miles on it. nothing has been done to it, the cam covers were off only to be painted but thats it. im working on making this the fastest n/a stock pi swapped out there. i do have the supporting drivetrain mods to go with it, sorta, have a 4.10 instead of a4.30 gear.Once again I digress, I have never seen anyone with a straight GT/Exploder swapped MN12 post that they got 245rwhp, or ran in the 13's after the swap ... and until someone does, I'm gonna have to stick with my opinion, based on the data I have seen, and my own experience, that the PI headswap provides more hp and is, dollar-for-dollar, the most effective mod.
I meant it derailed as far as going from the simple question of what makes more power, to a discussion of power levels, mods, ETs, etc. However, I think this has become one of the best threads on the boards for this discussion.Hmm... How's it been derailed already? I think we're all talking about the same thing here. PI headswaps, PI motor swaps!
BTW, I think you were the two guys I saw and talked to about your cars at the shootout in Ohio last fall, would that be correct?
And as I told you then, they both ran really well. I felt out of place a little since I didn't have mine there. But I had fun running the 4 X 4 SC F150 anyway LOL!!!
That was kind of my point with my post. To run a good ET in one of these cars, a lot of it seems to be in the TC, transmission, and gears. I have a lighter, more slightly powerful engine than henry74, but his car is still quicker than mine because of the TC and gears. His will be quicker still when he gets DRs on it like I had on mine. Dirtydog and I raced several times at the shootout. He'd get me off the line everytime, but I ran him down and beat him to the line by a few tenths because my car has more on the top end.Your dyno numbers and track times are pretty much in line with the PI swap guys I was around back in '03. Assuming what the PI swap guys here are saying is true, lower gears and a loose TC and proper tires, should get you to 13's.
Whatever power and torque a GT motor pulls in an automatic Mustang, should be what it pulls in a bird, no?? Just yankin' the motor out and putting it into an MN12 isn't gonna magically increase the power the engine makes. I ran against alot of basically stock Mustangs at Moroso, and most of them were running in the low 14's .. I remember 'cause I though it was kinda funny for them to get the "Dial-in" head start against "Grandma's" T-bird. Generally speaking, T-birds are 600 pounds heavier than GT's, so 'splain to me how taking the stock PI motor out of a Mustang and putting it in a T-bird, without significant other drivetrain mods, is gonna take a T-bird into the 13's??
Surely there must be some dyno numbers for stock, automatic PI GT's posted on the 'Stang boards. What kind of power are they getting?? I would think that those numbers are the numbers one can expect if one takes that stock PI motor out of the Mustang, and installs it in T-Bird/Cat. I'm thinking that there isn't any mystery here ...