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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive got a fully upgraded/built/ w.e you want to call it trans setup.

4r70w with a jmodded valvebody and a custom built torque converter

Im not 100% sure whats in the converter but I do know its a single plate and it was built for my supercharged car so it should handle a good bit of power I was just wondering what they could usually take and what would happen if I pushed too much power to it?

I feel like its got similar size and specs to this

http://www.dirtydogperformance.com/converters/ford/4r70w-/-aode/10-inch-4r70w/prod_10.html

Im currently making 440 rwhp to it and its had no problems with that.....but my question is it should it be fine at 500 rwhp? 550 rwhp?

And what would happen if it wasnt able to handle the power? Would it destroy my transmission?
 

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Ive got a fully upgraded/built/ w.e you want to call it trans setup.

4r70w with a jmodded valvebody and a custom built torque converter

Im not 100% sure whats in the converter but I do know its a single plate and it was built for my supercharged car so it should handle a good bit of power I was just wondering what they could usually take and what would happen if I pushed too much power to it?

I feel like its got similar size and specs to this

http://www.dirtydogperformance.com/converters/ford/4r70w-/-aode/10-inch-4r70w/prod_10.html

Im currently making 440 rwhp to it and its had no problems with that.....but my question is it should it be fine at 500 rwhp? 550 rwhp?

And what would happen if it wasnt able to handle the power? Would it destroy my transmission?
Do you shift with the converter locked up at WOT?

DirtyDog should be able to give you some numbers. I know his website advertises a 9.5" unit he sells rated for up to 650 rwhp at WOT lockup shifts.
 

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It really depends on the single disc unit. Need to know the clutch type, damper or not? Diameter of clutch? Amount of surface area? A large single is very strong but is also very heavy. Oddly a stack of small frictiosn gives more surface area and less weight with better engagement. A wide clutch can handle the hold but will be sluggish to apply.
Alan
 

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Keep in mind I have done testing after testing to see what works and what doesn't, Do you have any frictions specs on the converter and does it use the stock damper? Locking up at wot is great for low power applications but at some power level unlocking is safest on the transmission and drivetrain. To get this transmission to survive over 800rwhp eliminating lockup all together is beneficial. It is rare for me to suggest it however because most people using this transmission want the good driving habits of lockup on the highway.
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Yes, the converter locks in 2nd and shifts locked into third.

Honestly, im not 100% sure what is in the thing anymore....I had spec. years ago but lost them and can not get in touch with the guy who built it.

It appears to be a 9.5 or 10 inch unit.

When I measure across the body of the case its about 10 inches.

The unit weighs about 32-33 lbs.

Not sure if that really tells you anything.

I thought I remember the guy who built it telling be it should handle 550 ft lb of tq....

but tq is not the same as horsepower so im not sure what exactly that means in terms of horsepower.....


My biggest concern is what happens if it cant handle the power?

It slips and burns up?....does it destroy my transmission or what?

Also, im shooting for around 600 rwhp~. Really dont plan on pushing it too much farther than that with this unit in there.
 

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That sounds like something similar to a PI single disc. The clutch is small on those, if it has a paper lining it will burn up and peel off contaminating the transmission. If it has a high energy clutch it will take a good bit of slipping and never peel off but they do glaze and not work as well anymore.
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
That sounds like something similar to a PI single disc. The clutch is small on those, if it has a paper lining it will burn up and peel off contaminating the transmission. If it has a high energy clutch it will take a good bit of slipping and never peel off but they do glaze and not work as well anymore.
Alan

IIRC, I remember the guy who built this for me telling me how crappy the PI units were and to avoid them at all costs...so Im pretty sure its not similar to that one haha.

So if it does have the paper lining, there is a possibility that it could ruin my transmission?

Off topic but would you consider the input shaft the weak point of a 4r70w?

My trans is supposed to be fully built but apparently only has a hardened input shaft, not a billet or welded shaft. I believe the builder also told me that he would rate the trans for 600 ft lb.

Does that sound right or is he being conservative?

Ive also read about people going 9s at near 150 mph with stock internal 4r70ws so I kinda think he was just being conservative and the trans "should" be ok with the power?
 

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There is not purpose for an input shaft upgrade on this transmission, I have never seen one break, the forward hub will strip out once you have installed a 300m intermediate shaft and 300m direct drum if the forward drum splines don't strip out first. As far as the converter goes I have no clue what you have you have not given me near enoguh information. Facts are if the converter is only 10 inch on outside diameter the clutch cannot be larger than that, My best single has an 11.75 inch front cover to fit an 11 inch clutch. If you have a 10 inch front cover at best it has a 9.5 inch clutch and more likely 9.25 or 9inch even. That isn't much clutch for a single. There are only a few products available for them and it is probably the transmission specialties piston which is used in the late PI singles. It is much better than their earlier models I have built a few prototypes with it but they are in my own cars. So far mine is doing well but I had to pin the tcc regulator valve. You might want to consider that.
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Ok so lets assume its has a 9 to 9.5 inch clutch in it...

what kind of power do those typically handle?

Is this something that is going to come apart with one 550-600 rwhp pull or what?

Im really trying to figure out if I should just drive it and see if it ever breaks or just go ahead and upgrade to a triple disc while I have the engine and tranny out.....
 

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Im really trying to figure out if I should just drive it and see if it ever breaks or just go ahead and upgrade to a triple disc while I have the engine and tranny out.....
I'd have thought that was a no-brainer if you had the money - upgrade.

(Note: not meant to sound insulting! There's probably a lot of considerations I don't know about.)

RwP
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I'd have thought that was a no-brainer if you had the money - upgrade.

(Note: not meant to sound insulting! There's probably a lot of considerations I don't know about.)

RwP


Understandable, Im spending a **** ton of money on this build, this was one thing I was hoping not to have to upgrade......and then im still kinda wondering if I should be worried about the actual transmission coming apart even if I upgrade the converter?

Here is some specs I have from years ago:
99+ hardned input shaft
4r75 planetary
5.4 sun gear
mechanical diode
billet 1-2 accumulator
bonded 2-3 aqccumulat
8 disc direct
welded direct drum
raybestos clutches
6 forward discs
kevlar intermediate/od bands


Apparently this was "top of the line" stuff when I had this built.

So for you trans experts, when should I be worried? should it handle 600-700 ft lb no problems or what?
 

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Ok so lets assume its has a 9 to 9.5 inch clutch in it...

what kind of power do those typically handle?

Is this something that is going to come apart with one 550-600 rwhp pull or what?

Im really trying to figure out if I should just drive it and see if it ever breaks or just go ahead and upgrade to a triple disc while I have the engine and tranny out.....
Locked at wot, very little, less than stock.
Alan
 

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It's not holding that is the problem is is engagement. A wide clutch will hold very well but will be slow to engage. That slide during engagement is slippage and will eventually kill the clutch. High energy clutches will last years that way paper clutches will not. I am a believer in single disc clutches because they have less drag, but once I built a small diameter high surface area multiple clutch stack and saw how fast it can apply compared to a single plate the difference is obvious. What I used to think was hydraulic and electronic delay became "oh my that clutch was slow to engage". Did you ever watch the video of me testing a 9 plate unit I built?
Alan
 

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99+ hardned input shaft...I assume you mean intermediate "stub" shaft. You are on the border there is the shifting is precisely controlled for safety it will be ok but does act as a fuse to prevent major damage.
4r75 planetary..best you can get.
5.4 sun gear..same deal
mechanical diode..of course, hope you welded the snap ring or put a spiral retainer on there
billet 1-2 accumulator...what?
bonded 2-3 aqccumulat..I prefer the aftermarket but it should be ok
8 disc direct...Using what? Alto crap and paper thin steels?. .070 steels and OEM late frictions in a 7 plate I find to be best, regardless if the clutch is good enough and needed you'll twist the drum
welded direct drum...welded?
raybestos clutches..stage one or stock? in all packs or some?
6 forward discs..ok either way with or without wave.
kevlar intermediate/od bands...hope you mean raybestos pro series kevlar is crap but hardly exists anymore people just think kevlar is best and call them kevlar. Black high energy is best.

You left out many important details, valvebody? core used? What do you have controlling the temps? one piece solid output shaft sealing rings? Stock pressure regulator valve? What pressure control solenoid? If you really put the power you say through it you have a high probability of twisting the direct drum if the stub shaft doesn't shear off first. What about the sun shell? What reverse drum? Is the input shaft one with the splines hardened on back where it meets the stub shaft?
Lube mod?
Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
99+ hardned input shaft...I assume you mean intermediate "stub" shaft. You are on the border there is the shifting is precisely controlled for safety it will be ok but does act as a fuse to prevent major damage.
4r75 planetary..best you can get.
5.4 sun gear..same deal
mechanical diode..of course, hope you welded the snap ring or put a spiral retainer on there
billet 1-2 accumulator...what?
bonded 2-3 aqccumulat..I prefer the aftermarket but it should be ok
8 disc direct...Using what? Alto crap and paper thin steels?. .070 steels and OEM late frictions in a 7 plate I find to be best, regardless if the clutch is good enough and needed you'll twist the drum
welded direct drum...welded?
raybestos clutches..stage one or stock? in all packs or some?
6 forward discs..ok either way with or without wave.
kevlar intermediate/od bands...hope you mean raybestos pro series kevlar is crap but hardly exists anymore people just think kevlar is best and call them kevlar. Black high energy is best.

You left out many important details, valvebody? core used? What do you have controlling the temps? one piece solid output shaft sealing rings? Stock pressure regulator valve? What pressure control solenoid? If you really put the power you say through it you have a high probability of twisting the direct drum if the stub shaft doesn't shear off first. What about the sun shell? What reverse drum? Is the input shaft one with the splines hardened on back where it meets the stub shaft?
Lube mod?
Alan
I know that the clutch packs arent stock...I thought they were the blue clutches? or maybe reds?

The valvebody is modded...basically jmodded to the builders specs and the springs were changed to stiffer ones or removed for quicker shifts. Ive got a 45k btu trucool cooler.

I wish I knew more but I really dont have any more info that what I posted here.

So with that, im assuming your saying I should keep the power down below 600 to be safe and make this thing last.

Not sure if I should go to a triple disc or not....if I stay supercharged I will probably end up making 500-550 rwhp and 500 tq or so at the most.
 
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