TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 59 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The guys at school and I have been working with hydrogen and all of the latest stuff. We have made a gasoline engine run on hydrogen. We created the hydrogen by our selves by extracing from water.

The car still ran with gas in the tank, but increased fuel milage from 30-50%. Ran the hydrogen right through the PCV system of the vehicle.

I was wondering if anyone has much expirence with hydrogen to where we can extract more faster. The rate we went was 1gal a week. I'm attempting to run hydrogen on my t-bird to see what the effects are.

So far my idea is to fab and wire someting similar to a nitrous kit. Except the resivor being a hydrogen tank in the trunk and a constant, light spray into each cylinder. My goal is also to fab a hydrogen tank in place in my spare tire well and to raise the floor of the trunk.

So far this is only a expirment and I am going to see how successful it can work with a Ford gasoline engine.

We tried it on a chevy caviler. Worked well with a 4cyl.

We also created bio-diesel that reduiced noise out of a duramax by 50%. That failed though because it gelled at 50 deg F.

Oh well I'll report back to let you ll know with success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
I'd steer away from using tanks of hydrogen in a daily driven car. if one ruptured in an accident and there was any type of spark then you have an inferno in your trunk...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
You just need to order one of those mobile on-the-fly browns gas generators the quacks sell. There's no need to transport high pressure hydrogen around, you just fill up on gas and water and get 30-40-50 percent better mileage from a tank of gas! :rofl:

www.water4gas.com

I'm surprised GM hasn't figured this out yet. /snicker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thats funny, that is the same concept we did in class. Monitered with a Tech2 (OBD tool) and less fuel was consumed. 50% is quite exagerated though. (I admit )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
A couple of people have developed cars totally powered by water. You can find videos on youtube about it. If I can find the link again I will post it up here. It's a big conspiracy, some people have supposedly been payed off or murdered for developing this technology.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,371 Posts
I'd steer away from using tanks of hydrogen in a daily driven car. if one ruptured in an accident and there was any type of spark then you have an inferno in your trunk...
couldn't be any worse then placing a vented plastic 18 gallon container under the car full with class 3 flammable liquid UN1203... wait.. That's Gasoline. OK it's safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
you will need to cryo it. liquid is the only usable method right now. BMW has a stainless/fiberglass 27 layered tank that is safe. if the tank ruptures the hydrogen flame never gets inside of the tank. inside pressure prevents that. the tank's thermal insulation is also good.


i believe norway has a refrigeration unit that takes pure water and extracts the hydrogen and cool, compresses it on site. the unit is the size of a refrigerator. they plan to put the units everywhere in norway making hydrogen readily available.

germany plans to convert to hydrogen in the next few years. the 7 series BMW runs 142 mph.


ford has a 6.8l V-10 with roots blower for metro busses in florida.


etc


hydrogen is the answer. E85 has only caused food prices to explode as grain needed for feed and human consumption goes to cars. supply and demand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
A couple of people have developed cars totally powered by water. You can find videos on youtube about it. If I can find the link again I will post it up here. It's a big conspiracy, some people have supposedly been paid off or murdered for developing this technology.
I think the cars you are talking about are the one's using Brown's gas(as mentioned earlier). And I think if you dig into it, energy going into the system is still more than the energy coming back out. So converting the water to Brown's gas and then burning it in the car won't go as far as just powering the car in the first place.

I think the key is storage and portability. China is working on a nuke plant with a hydrogen secondary. The theoretical efficiency is on par with the high temperature gas cooled plants (50-55%) but the hydrogen fuel cell technology hasn't caught up yet. The sweet part about this design is that the plant can be operated at 100% until the core is depleted, and the excess hydrogen can be stored for peak power usage, or for long term deficiencies like plant outage(refuel or maintenance). The drawback to this design is the chemical used to crack the water into hydrogen and oxygen using heat is pretty nasty stuff. That and everyone is afraid of nuclear power.

As far as portability, the battery is a very inefficient energy storage device. So I think eventually we will go to hydrogen powered cars. I think the technology that will win, however, will be the hydrogen fuel cell powering an electric motor, mainly because of the inefficiency of the internal combustion engine.

Ok... I'm done hijacking the thread.

As far running hydrogen on your car, it wouldn't be any different than packing around an oxy-acetylene torch in the back of a service truck, or a nitrous bottle for that matter. Just use one of the small O2 bottles with a solenoid shut-off valve... or dual if you’re worried about one failing. Hook the solenoids into the fuel pump power so the inertial switch will kill it, and then weld up a tank cap to protect the solenoid valves and tank valve that a missile couldn't damage. As far as feeding it to the motor, just run it into the intake after the throttle body. That will give it time to fully mix with the intake air and equally distribute to all cylinders. You will probably want another solenoid to bleed off the residual pressure in the line when you turn the car off. Another thing you might want to do is regulate how much hydrogen is injected proportional to engine load. That should help your efficiency out a bit.

As far as cracking water faster, just up the current. Keep in mind that cracking water is a very inefficient process. So for experimental purposes, it will probably be ok, but for a long term solution it might not be as feasible.

Hope some of this is useful.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CMovXzVOzc4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SHXw1QkqV9w

a few videos on water powered combustion. I'm pretty sure they aren't 100% effecient either, but they are still more effecient than a standard combustion engine. Plus they run on a fuel that is very cheap as apposed to gasoline. If you could convert water to Hydrogen then the amount of hydrogen in the car at one time would be very small. Probably not enough to make a huge explosion, and the bi product would be H2O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
680 Posts
Here is the link to the Human-made oil that is truly amazing. I saw this on the science channel once, but it appears that Discover Magazine had done the article:

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/environment_new_recycling_process_2003.html

Unfortunately it seems that this is not panning out as hoped. There is a Carthage, MO plant and last I heard it was closed down because it smells.

As for they Hydrogen storage...Here is the link to the Hydrogen pills. They are still in research, but look to be an interesting way of transporting Hydrogen:


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/09/050907102549.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Lets just hope the Chinese don't do like they usually do. If so that Nuke plant will probably end up with a massive hydrogen tank farm right smack next to it. :rofl:

It's an interesting energy storage/buffering idea though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,233 Posts
hydrogen is the answer. E85 has only caused food prices to explode as grain needed for feed and human consumption goes to cars. supply and demand.
I disagree. The production of hydrogen consumes more energy than contained in the hydrogen produced. The most common industrial method is Steam Methane Reforming (google it if you need to know how it works). It reacts a carbon fuel like natural gas across a catalyst with steam, and produces hydrogen and some byproducts. It requires about 1000 Btu of natural gas to produce about 920 Btu of hydrogen. Efficiencies vary, but it's always a net loss. If you have even the remotest understanding of thermo, that will make sense, because fuel cells react hydrogen with oxygen in order to produce electricity.

So, if the goal is to reduce pollution, you only relocate the pollution from the tail pipe to the hydrogen plant. If the goal is to reduce dependance on foreign oil, well, we already import natural gas. Increased hydrogen production will just drive that. Again, we're back to electrolysis, and nuclear is the only electrical production method that makes sense for this purpose.

We're not even touching on the hydrogen infrastructure, or lack thereof. Tens of thousands of miles of new pipelines aint gonna be cheap. And who wants to step up and volunteer for a 24" high pressure hydrogen line to run next to your neighborhood?

So, what is the magic answer? There's not one. Every alternative to gasoline has a list of drawbacks a mile long. What you have to do is better define the goal you are trying to reach (cost, pollution, foreign oil, etc.), and decide if the tradeoffs are worth it. Because there is no one answer to all these issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,204 Posts
So, what is the magic answer? There's not one. Every alternative to gasoline has a list of drawbacks a mile long. What you have to do is better define the goal you are trying to reach (cost, pollution, foreign oil, etc.), and decide if the tradeoffs are worth it. Because there is no one answer to all these issues.
Very valid points. That said, whoever figures out how to cheaply get the hydrogen out of ocean water could find himself the world's richest man! :cool: A virtually inexhaustable supply of raw material!
 

·
PostWhore, The AFDB is on a lil tight.
Joined
·
3,868 Posts
does water vapor cause cancer? What would you rather breathe instead? Global warming be damned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,758 Posts
So, what is the magic answer? There's not one. Every alternative to gasoline has a list of drawbacks a mile long. What you have to do is better define the goal you are trying to reach (cost, pollution, foreign oil, etc.), and decide if the tradeoffs are worth it. Because there is no one answer to all these issues.
Um, yes there are: Stop using it!! :beek:

Vehicle February 2008 sales
1. Ford F-series pickup
2. Chevrolet Silverado pickup
3. Toyota Camry
4. Honda Accord
5. Chevrolet Impala
6. Honda Civic
7. Nissan Altima
8. Dodge Ram pickup
9. Toyota Corolla
10. Chevrolet Cobalt

Note not a single Hybrid in the list. But 3 of the top 10 are pickup trucks!! :zbash:

Instead of spending billions and billions of dollars on "alternate solutions", why don't we just make change to our driving/buying habits? Oh wait, that would mean we would have to make sacrifices!!! Heaven forbid. ;)

But to stay on topic, like everyone says, it takes more energy to convert the water to hydrogen and oxygen than it produces. Just simple laws of physics, i.e. conservation of energy: In short, the law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

but just my .02. :D
 
1 - 20 of 59 Posts
Top