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I'm drooling over that Camaro. The car just looks mean and gives the image of "get out of my way." I love it!
 

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The styling is okay. I'll reserve judgement until I see it in person on the 21st. I know it's probably a petty thing, but those wheels are . . . well, not right for the genre of car that it's supposed to be . Maybe it's just me. I guess I'm just not into the whole big wheels thing. They look like they came off the XXX 2 GTO.

Like i said, kind of a small thing to nitpick on (i know, it's a concept).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
SVT2888 said:
GM and Ford only seem to have a problem in "Perceived" quality but not actual quality.
I own a 2005 F250 diesel, 1995 Tbird, 2000 mustang and 1999 Infiniti G20t. Of those, the infiniti has been in for service the least. Yes, fewer times than the 11,000 mile F250, and it has 150,000 miles.

My dad has a 2004 Olds Bravada and a 2005 Lexus ES300, and just sold a 2000 Toyota Avalon. Before that, they've had a Mazda 626, Olds Aurora, Ford Taurus, Buick Skylark and Olds Firenza station wagon. (this is the history to mid 80's)

Consistently the GM's and Fords have had numerous issues. Even his relatively new Bravada has issues with AC, transmission, interior pieces breaking, differential problems, wierd nosies. The foreign cars, no problems other than usual wear.

From our experience, the quality goes Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM. I've also driven some dodges that put them at the bottom, but these were at least 2003 or older so didn't have the full Diamler influence.

GM is famous for the planned obsolescence of their vehicles. Before the 90's, they planned for you to trade in you car at 80,000 miles for your next one to keep the customer coming back. They've improved, but that mentality has been hard to break. GM is slow to respond to the market (see plants closing because of excess capacity) and has not been able to break the past reputations with new models.

I like the shape of the 09 camaro, it's agressive. I like the new mustang when you add a body kit and wheels to give a heavier stance, I like the DC vehicles with the 425 HP (all engine) 6.1L. I like the new Vette. Keep em coming.

The big 3 need to address quality again and again. If you had a 6.0L Ford Diesel, you'd know what I'm talking about. www.dieselstop.com
With the technology available today, why vehicles can't be built without significant problems still astounds me.

Rant off...
 

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I'd take the challanger instead
<img src=http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q1/132006121933.jpg>
<img src=http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/02/challenger06.jpg>
<img src=http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/02/challenger06_02.jpg>
 

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problem is they spend more money making a less reliable product!!!
And they'll tell you a thousand times over, they could build a bullet proof product, but it would cost ten times as much.

Toyota is just more efficient, and can put the money in the right places to insure quality, especially powertrains.

Although some Toyota's in past have had really chitty steel body work. Thinner than the skin of my @#$ an instant rust bomb.

Nissan used to over engineer everything so bad they went practically bankrupt, until they were bought.

Mitsu, Subaru, both have some decent quality products, sometimes minor issues, but the big stuff is trouble free.

I'm starting to like Audi and Audi Jr (Volkswagen), I've always loved Porsche, Seems like BMW and Benz are going down-hill, but they certainly still make a few choice machines.

Hard to beat the Bang for buck of the Z06!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only owned German cars, and Ford's, only GM beater we ever had was really a Toyota, my wife had a Saturn with a Honda V6 powertrain(sold it), and now a Vibe with Toyota powertrain, and AWD.

As long as I don't have to devote to much time away from my projects working on her commuter, then I'm happy, other than oil changes hers has been problem free.

Did I mention I love German cars?
 

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Teeps said:
problem is they spend more money making a less reliable product!!!
And they'll tell you a thousand times over, they could build a bullet proof product, but it would cost ten times as much.

Toyota is just more efficient, and can put the money in the right places to insure quality, especially powertrains.

Although some Toyota's in past have had really chitty steel body work. Thinner than the skin of my @#$ an instant rust bomb.

Nissan used to over engineer everything so bad they went practically bankrupt, until they were bought.

Mitsu, Subaru, both have some decent quality products, sometimes minor issues, but the big stuff is trouble free.

I'm starting to like Audi and Audi Jr (Volkswagen), I've always loved Porsche, Seems like BMW and Benz are going down-hill, but they certainly still make a few choice machines.

Hard to beat the Bang for buck of the Z06!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only owned German cars, and Ford's, only GM beater we ever had was really a Toyota, my wife had a Saturn with a Honda V6 powertrain(sold it), and now a Vibe with Toyota powertrain, and AWD.

As long as I don't have to devote to much time away from my projects working on her commuter, then I'm happy, other than oil changes hers has been problem free.

Did I mention I love German cars?
Actually Volkswagen reliability is pretty bad. Alot of the small stuff breaks and their dealer service is terrible!
 

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SVT2888 said:
Actually Volkswagen reliability is pretty bad. Alot of the small stuff breaks and their dealer service is terrible!
Actually we have some good dealers around here, but I have never owned one, and I never said they were reliable, I just like them, heh.
Generally on german cars, some of them are not very reliable (BMW electrical especially) and the parts are very pricy, typically three times as much.

But if you pick the right machine, they can definately last a very long time, my 300E had 185k miles before my dad traded it in, and I beat the living piss out of it.
 

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That concept looks great! Same with Dodge's Challenger. Both those concepts look better than the new Mustang Ford shat out.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You have to remember though that the mustang is a pony car, not "officially" intended to compete directly with the camaro/transam/corvette/challenger etc. It's in it's own category which is good and bad. It gives them an excuse to be about 5 years behind on HP ratings, but still do it with a smaller engine. Unfortunately, ford mileage is still behind the GM/Chrysler vehicles, especially with DOD.
 

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The Mustang is a Pony car, you're right. And the Camaro, the Challenger, (and the Javelin), came out to compete directly with it; hence the name "Pony Car". The Camaro/Firebird, the Barracuda/Challenger, and the now nonexistant Javelin, are very much pony cars. Small, 4-passenger, 2-door sporty coupes. The Corvette is the car from your list that does not belong there. It is a 2 seat sports car.

My personal opinion is that the Challenger (the new one) is a much better looking car than the Camaro. But then again, its further along towards production than the Camaro pictured. Production cars always look like Space ships compared to the eventual production cars. I'll give Chevy time to develop the Camaro a little more before I pass judgement. I do think it has potential however.
 

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oops my bad. Shoulda proof read. Should read "concept cars always look like Space Ships compared to the eventual production cars". :D
 

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That camaro sucks ***. Get the challenger.
 
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