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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Took my multi-disc PI converter into Circle D Specialties in Houston today for Chris to cut open and restall/replace the clutches.
The clutches were burned,and were flaking some-I suspect that PI's clutch material choice is poor,and the material isn't suited for the load that they're seeing,because this converter only has 5K miles on it.
The clutch discs,and the lockup piston clutch:



The backside of the lockup piston:


Inside the front cover:
The clutches engage the cover in the "splines"


Fully brazed pump,turbine:



It had an 086 stator in it,we replaced it with a 102 stator to get some more stall speed out of it:


New clutches using high carbon material:


Relined lockup piston:


Assembled clutches in front cover:


For the most part this is a good converter,the clutch material just sucks.Chris is working on a multidisc that will have more surface area,and it uses a billet front cover, billet piston, and some other improvements over the PI multidisc, and should have them ready to sell in the coming months. I'll let you all know when he's got it ready,and what the pricing will be. It'll be nice to have an alternative to PI for a multidisc converter. I also got a look at a converter he's building for a Dodge SRT-10 truck with 3 dual sided clutchplates. It's a really nice piece, and he's going to make his 4R70W multidisc in a similar fashion, so it'll have more than enough surface area for serious applications.
He's making a single disc converter that's a nice alternative.It has approx 2x the clutch surface area as a stock Ford converter,has the good high-carbon clutch lining,and has a billet piston and front cover for max strength with less flex during lockup so it'll resist slippage.

JL
 

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cool beans

are both the single and multi going to be priced competitively to PI?
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
jamesD said:
cool beans

are both the single and multi going to be priced competitively to PI?
He's actually selling the singles now.
And they're very competitive with PI,and he's sure he can come in at or under PI for a multidisc.
JL
 

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hey chris.. i just sent you an email a few minutes ago
 

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Well in a way that actually sux to hear JL. Only because as you know I also have a PI triple disc and have had it a lot longer than you had yours. I'm putting out the same hp too but my shifts are 6800 - 7000 so that doesn't give me a warm feeling now.
 

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Well, if these are going to hold up much better then theyre well worth the money. How much power can the single disc version hold, and how much power for the multi-disc?
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Circle-D said:
Thanks for stoping by Johnny, I always enjoy working on performance stuff. :) Let me know if you need anything else!
Will do man. So far so good..that stator swap seems to have raised stall speed
about 500-600 rpms I'll try to log a run at the track and see how much better it is.
JL
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
JustinH said:
Looks good JL. Aren't you pissed that your 5k old PI converter is trashed? I'd be on the phone with them thats for sure.
Well,I bought the converter used from John Edwards-he had used it one weekend at the track,and it had 10-12 passes on it.
I'm really suprised as to how bad the clutches were,so that material has to be total crap. And honestly-they'd just put the same crappy material back in it,so that'd be a wasted call.
JL
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Lonnie said:
Well in a way that actually sux to hear JL. Only because as you know I also have a PI triple disc and have had it a lot longer than you had yours. I'm putting out the same hp too but my shifts are 6800 - 7000 so that doesn't give me a warm feeling now.
Well,my 1-2 completes at 6900,and my 2-3 completes at 6700,so I'm right around your rpm range.
JL
 

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Silver95Bird said:
Well, if these are going to hold up much better then theyre well worth the money. How much power can the single disc version hold, and how much power for the multi-disc?
Chris told me that the billet single is on a 500hp stang that uses NOS. tis ok w/ a 100shot, but starts slippin a bit higher than that
 

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That looks almost like a pre-96 poor design lockup piston? Isn't there something better to weld on the clutch spline sub assembly to? Here is Darrin comparing a pre-96 and a post-96 lockup piston:


Where's the beef?

You should visit dirtydOg at the Mecca of Torque converters. He knows where to get the best carbon clutchs.
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
J.Miller said:
That looks almost like a pre-96 poor design lockup piston? Isn't there something better to weld on the clutch spline sub assembly to? Here is Darrin comparing a pre-96 and a post-96 lockup piston:
You should visit dirtydOg at the Mecca of Torque converters. He knows where to get the best carbon clutchs.
Chris and I also looked at the lockup pistons,and compared the both of them.
The only difference was the rolled lip that is on the newer piston,but it won't fit in the 9.5" housing,and PI even trims the piston down a bit before they weld a 3/8" ring on it for engaging the lockup clutches. As for the carbon clutches, there's only a few variants available.The GM "high carbon" clutch material is not available for the aftermarket-GM has it patented.The aftermarket materials are all very close the GM stuff,but not exactly the same.
JL
 

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Actually the later design piston is made of a thicker material, has the lip around the outside (which does alot to stiffen it) and has twice as many rivets holding it together.
Alan
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
dirtyd0g said:
Actually the later design piston is made of a thicker material, has the lip around the outside (which does alot to stiffen it) and has twice as many rivets holding it together.
Alan
Right,and that's exactly what Chris and I both saw. But when PI welds the 3/8" cltuch spline ring onto the piston,it stiffens it to be equal or stronger.
Circle D's Billet converters use a Billet lockup piston too along with the billet front cover.
JL
 

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Johnny Langton said:
Right,and that's exactly what Chris and I both saw. But when PI welds the 3/8" cltuch spline ring onto the piston,it stiffens it to be equal or stronger.
Circle D's Billet converters use a Billet lockup piston too along with the billet front cover.
JL

Billet lockup piston? Please define, do you mean damperless similar to what Pi does in their powerstroke units?
 

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Billet is Jewlery!!!!

I may not be a Materials Engineer, I am sorry but the flagrant use of the term Billet is starting to annoy me. It seems to be everywhere. I always though that Billet was to machine a part out of a single piece of metal. Now this is cool and all but, is the part actually superior to a cast part? Well I searched the net and this is what I found:

Billet Clarification

So when you say Billet the part is machined. It may not be superior to a cast part but it is more expensive… Think of it as a cast block of metal that has machining done to it…

Furthermore, a machined part or a cast part with some machining may be equal in structural integrity. So if both parts are the same then the only difference will come down to defects in the material. This is why they have passivation, pickeling, shot peaning, heat treatment and etc… To keep things short the final molecular structure of the material is all that counts!

Now in the aircraft industry, they actually developed a process to grow metal parts out of a crystalline structure. Now this is far superior to casting because the metal has much less impurities in it. Machine a part out of this stuff and then you have something to talk about!!!! :eek:
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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3,232 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
dirtyd0g said:
Billet lockup piston? Please define, do you mean damperless similar to what Pi does in their powerstroke units?
I'll have to get with Chris as to how the piston is made.
I didn't look at the piston in detail,I just know it's a much better piece than the part that Ford makes.
JL
 

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High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
J.Miller said:
I may not be a Materials Engineer, I am sorry but the flagrant use of the term Billet is starting to annoy me. It seems to be everywhere. I always though that Billet was to machine a part out of a single piece of metal. Now this is cool and all but, is the part actually superior to a cast part? Well I searched the net and this is what I found:

Billet Clarification

So when you say Billet the part is machined. It may not be superior to a cast part but it is more expensive… Think of it as a cast block of metal that has machining done to it…

Furthermore, a machined part or a cast part with some machining may be equal in structural integrity. So if both parts are the same then the only difference will come down to defects in the material. This is why they have passivation, pickeling, shot peaning, heat treatment and etc… To keep things short the final molecular structure of the material is all that counts!

Now in the aircraft industry, they actually developed a process to grow metal parts out of a crystalline structure. Now this is far superior to casting because the metal has much less impurities in it. Machine a part out of this stuff and then you have something to talk about!!!! :eek:
Yeah,it's machined out of a single piece of material,and is superior to the STAMPED STEEL piece that Ford uses(Ford's piston isn't cast-it's a steel stamping).Don't worry-you'll never make enough power or torque with that 5.4L to worry about flexing the Ford part,so you're in good shape.
JL
 
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