TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got bored sitting here today and had a couple of CCRMs lying around, so the curiosity got the best of me and I figured I should drill out the rivets and look inside.

I've seen various threads with these things on many boards but no one seems to know exactly what's in there (we all know it's relays).

So here it is. You can see the Bosch relays and part numbers. This may help people wanting/needing to use regular relays instead of a CCRM.

CCRM Part #: F6SF-12B577-AA
Bosch relays: 0-332-019-162



 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,017 Posts
Here's the relay data:

http://www.bpg-inc.com/std_mini.htm

5th one down in first table.

The two omron relays are special, apparently. They don't show up in anything but surplus places.

These are all available on ebay.

Yank the relays, and post pix; I'll help make a schematic drawing.

I'd like to do all the boxes eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
They are soldered, you can't change just a rely you need to replace the entire CCRM and I don't think they make them anymore
Freakin wimps! Find a homebrew electronics nerd to do it! Offer to change his oil or something.
Read down to Mikey's POST!!!!
The Omrons {dont bother searching the Omron site}

http://www.google.com/search?q=omron+G8H-UA-007108

http://www.google.com/search?q=omron+G8SN-UA-007116
- notice that relay is of particular interest for A/C operation.

What's the transistor markings?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,663 Posts
Actually the relays themselves hardly ever go bad. What happens is the solder joints become brittle and the vibration causes them to crack and not complete the path to the relay. If you have one that isn't working, take it apart like that, and re-solder all the connections, and it will be as good as new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
Actually the relays themselves hardly ever go bad. What happens is the solder joints become brittle and the vibration causes them to crack and not complete the path to the relay. If you have one that isn't working, take it apart like that, and re-solder all the connections, and it will be as good as new.
Mikey's right! I fixed a guy's furnace control board .. flaky burner valve opeation. Just by understanding how to 'flex test'. - little as possible movement thn probing the board with small screwdriver to localize, then resolder.

Half these guys would botch it mikey. And wont bother to google 'basic solder technique'
Like I said... Know anybody at all? It's cake to an electronic tech.

I'm dumb. What does the CCRM control?
Most of your car's creature comforts. Base models often dont have them
-ooops. May be wrong again. Or am I? :(
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,017 Posts
Mikey's right! I fixed a guy's furnace control board .. flaky burner valve opeation. Just by understanding how to 'flex test'. - little as possible movement thn probing the board with small screwdriver to localize, then resolder.
I spray the pcb with flux, hit the points that need solder with a syringe full of kester 44 paste, and hit them with a heat gun until the solder melts across the board.

Takes 5 minutes, max; and you don't even have to localize it. :)

I can unsolder and resolder those, but as the man said, solder is usually the problem.

5 minutes of my time to not to have to find and get a $30 part is more my speed. :)

Oh, the transistors are drivers; you can tell by the center Collector lead. Any >25V transistor with that pinout, rated for ~1A, will work. If you replace transistors, replace the diodes too.

The transistors are labelled ECB on the circuit board, it looks like. The flat side is not always the same, so check the data sheet.

I use digikey for stuff like this; they also sell tons of leds, if you need to make up the minimum order... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
613 Posts
I spray the pcb with flux, hit the points that need solder with a syringe full of kester 44 paste, and hit them with a heat gun until the solder melts across the board.

Takes 5 minutes, max; and you don't even have to localize it. :)...
Now that is genius!


Special request: Any of you guys want to try that, especially if you've never done anything like that before or used a heat gun, PLEASE video it!

:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
or just wire your own relay.
That too 

The only thing marked on the transistors is "G4R" or "64R".

Caps are 47uf 10v, 1uf 63v and the small ceramic one I can't make out markings on.


Even if you get an electronics hobbyist to make you the unit, you would need to have the big connector for plug and play operation, or wire it all in yourself which may be beyond some people.

Hell I don't understand this thing entirely and I'm pretty decent with electrical stuff.

For instance, why there are two blue wires and two brown/orange wires that control high and low speed fan but they both splice into a single wire each on the fan.
2 wires come off the fan then break Into four on the CCRM, but according to the EVTM each of the same colored wires goes to the same pin on the relay.

Wtf Ford?!!? Just use one bloody wire.
 

·
Super Moderator
1994 Cougar XR7 DOHC/5-Speed
Joined
·
17,501 Posts
For instance, why there are two blue wires and two brown/orange wires that control high and low speed fan but they both splice into a single wire each on the fan.
2 wires come off the fan then break Into four on the CCRM, but according to the EVTM each of the same colored wires goes to the same pin on the relay.

Wtf Ford?!!? Just use one bloody wire.
Take a good look at those two wires coming off the connector and the wire going to the fan. Then have a look at the terminals in the CCRM and it's connector.

Sometimes when there's seemingly odd things on paper, reality can make sense out of them. In this case using one single wire sized according to the CCRM terminals wouldn't handle the current load the cooling fan draws. The solution? split the circuit into two terminals and effectively double the wire size before splicing to the single large gauge wire towards the motor.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
Half these guys would botch it mikey. And wont bother to google 'basic solder technique'
Like I said... Know anybody at all? It's cake to an electronic tech.
Pie, Pettyfog. Pie.

I prefer pie over cake :diablo:

(who just removed defective flasher parts and soldered a EP27L into the flasher module housing for his 91 Cougar, to get to where he could run LEDs as desired. Oh, and just modded the trunk light housing to allow the trunk light switch to control extra lights in the trunk - dang thing is black carpet!)

RwP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Take a good look at those two wires coming off the connector and the wire going to the fan. Then have a look at the terminals in the CCRM and it's connector.

Sometimes when there's seemingly odd things on paper, reality can make sense out of them. In this case using one single wire sized according to the CCRM terminals wouldn't handle the current load the cooling fan draws. The solution? split the circuit into two terminals and effectively double the wire size before splicing to the single large gauge wire towards the motor.
That crossed my mind....but they designed this thing, along with many other unique parts. Why not just do what they did with the firewall plug and make some of the pins larger for bigger wire?

Just sayin'. :)


If you look at the bottom of this open one it looks like the contact pads are starting to bubble under the epoxy coating covering the board.
 

·
Super Moderator
1994 Cougar XR7 DOHC/5-Speed
Joined
·
17,501 Posts
The C103 plug isn't restricted with space constraints or engineering cost the CCRM connector/terminal strips are(also terminals in the firewall connector are all exactly the same size, just the wiring is different) and the funny thing is, that connector splits the big power circuits in the exact manner as the cooling fans right before and after the ignition switch for the blower. That's just one example, It's done all over the car.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,017 Posts
That's just one example, It's done all over the car.
And it's much cheaper that way, believe me.

2x $.0001 or 1x $.01 is a big difference, when you are making 200k of something...

If you already use 500 of something, adding one or two more isn't expensive. Having one odd part to order, track, and deal with gets expensive fast. And they're always backordered, lol.

We have guys who's job it it to try to make me use cheaper parts... :facepalm: I prefer to make it work first, then take the cost out. :) Much easier.

There's nothing like the sound on the other end of the phone when you ask "So what's your best delivery on 250,000 of these?" I have yet to hear "We'll ship those right out."
:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
The C103 plug isn't restricted with space constraints or engineering cost the CCRM connector/terminal strips are(also terminals in the firewall connector are all exactly the same size, just the wiring is different) and the funny thing is, that connector splits the big power circuits in the exact manner as the cooling fans right before and after the ignition switch for the blower. That's just one example, It's done all over the car.
Touché, I did in fact forget those pins are all the same size.

These methods seem odd on an individual scale I guess, but mass quantities do add up.

The thing is though, they created a specialty part that might not have needed to be created, so it's almost the same as making a special plug. They took relays and stuffed them into a little metal box.

I tend to think on kind of an organized scale which isn't always cost effective, but they could have just stuck the relays in the distro box. From an engineering standpoint they would have just needed to change a few small things to make it fit in there, and the wires could have been a little neater.

Not that it matters really they did what they did for the reasons they did it. Those reasons are really unknown to me but I'm guessing if I was there it would all make sense :)
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top