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Discussion Starter #1
I have been giving Lincoln a lot of thought after Dan Akerson from GM said that Lincoln

"They are trying like hell to resurrect Lincoln. Well, I might as well tell you, you might as well sprinkle holy water. It’s over.”

As much as I want Lincoln to be successful and their dealers to sell a ton of them, I just can't see how they can turn it around without spending a whole lot of cash. Lincoln was in much better shape when they had Mercury to sustain their dealerships, now those dealerships have to be losing money because their bread and butter Mercury cars are gone. Now Ford wants their Dealer network to spend $1 million dollars on their showrooms. If I were a Lincoln dealer, I would tell Ford to take a long walk off a short pier.

Here are the problems in my eyes:

  • The MK naming is too confusing for even car guys to keep track of. Bring back regular names to help ID the products.
  • The products are not unique enough. You can load up a Ford with similar features.
  • The outside design is dull and uninspiring. The last good design they had were the LS models.
  • All models should have Eccoboost as standard equipment.
  • No Halo car for the brand.
  • Lack of RWD options are disappointing.
  • Marketing is non existant. I would hate to feed my family on selling Lincolns right now.
If you were at Ford, what would you do to save Lincoln? What about killing the brand completely? Would you make a new brand that focused on performance and style (Like cross Pontiac with Lincoln)?

I would invest in the Ford brand. People used to buy Ford models because they are cheap, now people buy them because they want them. The quality, design and workmanship of the products are so much better then they were 10-15 years ago. I would be interested in what you have to say about it..
 

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I have been giving Lincoln a lot of thought after Dan Akerson from GM said that Lincoln

"They are trying like hell to resurrect Lincoln. Well, I might as well tell you, you might as well sprinkle holy water. It’s over.”

As much as I want Lincoln to be successful and their dealers to sell a ton of them, I just can't see how they can turn it around without spending a whole lot of cash. Lincoln was in much better shape when they had Mercury to sustain their dealerships, now those dealerships have to be losing money because their bread and butter Mercury cars are gone. Now Ford wants their Dealer network to spend $1 million dollars on their showrooms. If I were a Lincoln dealer, I would tell Ford to take a long walk off a short pier.

Here are the problems in my eyes:

  • The MK naming is too confusing for even car guys to keep track of. Bring back regular names to help ID the products.
  • The products are not unique enough. You can load up a Ford with similar features.
  • The outside design is dull and uninspiring. The last good design they had were the LS models.
  • All models should have Eccoboost as standard equipment.
  • No Halo car for the brand.
  • Lack of RWD options are disappointing.
  • Marketing is non existant. I would hate to feed my family on selling Lincolns right now.
If you were at Ford, what would you do to save Lincoln? What about killing the brand completely? Would you make a new brand that focused on performance and style (Like cross Pontiac with Lincoln)?

I would invest in the Ford brand. People used to buy Ford models because they are cheap, now people buy them because they want them. The quality, design and workmanship of the products are so much better then they were 10-15 years ago. I would be interested in what you have to say about it..
GM is doing it right. They bit the bullet and chose to resurrect Buick and Cadillac and allow the former to compete with Japan, and the latter to compete with Germany. While it was expensive its now paying for itself, big time.

Ford should have made Mercury compete with Buick and Lexus with models like what Lincoln currently has. Then make Lincoln a true world class brand with models that can compete with what Germany has to offer.
 

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GM is doing it right. They bit the bullet and chose to resurrect Buick and Cadillac and allow the former to compete with Japan, and the latter to compete with Germany. While it was expensive its now paying for itself, big time.
GM is only doing what the were forced to do, nothing more. They "bit the bullet" and established their current business plan as a direct result of their bankruptcy and subsequent government bailout. Not that it's a bad plan but they wouldn't be where they are otherwise.

The only reason Buick is still around is because the Chinese love them, otherwise they'd have gone the route of Oldsmobile, Saturn, Pontiac, etc.

I'm most impressed with the way Cadillac has been treated to the spoils of Pontiac, Saturn and other GM brands demise. I wish that Ford would put some effort into building other performance cars/models besides the bloody Mustang! It would be awesome to see a Lincoln (MKZ or MKS) or another Ford Model (perhaps the new Taurus) compete and perform on the level of the Cadillac CTS-V.

It's been said that Lincoln has inherited the spoils of Mercury's demise so I guess time will tell if the addl. $$ pays off for Lincoln.

Ford should have made Mercury compete with Buick and Lexus with models like what Lincoln currently has. Then make Lincoln a true world class brand with models that can compete with what Germany has to offer.
Hopefully it's not to late for Lincoln to reinvent itself in the manner that Cadillac has.

I found this article interesting if anyone would like to take a look see at Lincoln by the numbers here's the link.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20110618/BLOG06/110619868/-1/mobile&template=art4
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would like to see Ford go "all out" with the Mustang and make it boldly styled. It should be built for those who want to make a statement and be noticed. The engines should be the most advanced that Ford offers, with big HP numbers.

Ford could bring the Thunderbird back as a luxary version of the Mustang. It could have more convential styling, more toys for the interior and possibily allow more leg room. Ride comfort would be the focus, not HP. The standard 3.5 or Eccoboost 3.5 would be its biggest engine. I know this sounds familar, but I think it would work again.
 

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The engines should be the most advanced that Ford offers, with big HP numbers.
what are you talking about? Have you read about the Coyote in the '11 mustang? The 390 ft*lb of torque it can produce in stock form is nothing short of astonishing at the level the car is at $$$-wise. TI-VCT? That's the same torque a stock 03 cobra puts out with the supercharger. In a couple years there's is little doubt it will be direct injected, the cams are already being revised (theres a couple different ones already), the Boss302 manifold is already out--I can see over 400 ft*lbs of torque in stock trim easily. Couple that with the high RPM nature of the beast, and 500+ HP will be the norm in naturally aspirated form. Oh and great fuel economy. What else can you ask for in a car in this price range?
 

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what are you talking about? Have you read about the Coyote in the '11 mustang? The 390 ft*lb of torque it can produce in stock form is nothing short of astonishing at the level the car is at $$$-wise. TI-VCT? That's the same torque a stock 03 cobra puts out with the supercharger. In a couple years there's is little doubt it will be direct injected, the cams are already being revised (theres a couple different ones already), the Boss302 manifold is already out--I can see over 400 ft*lbs of torque in stock trim easily. Couple that with the high RPM nature of the beast, and 500+ HP will be the norm in naturally aspirated form. Oh and great fuel economy. What else can you ask for in a car in this price range?

Get em GM! :D
 

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But the coyote torque is at a super high rpm like 4500-4600 were the cobra was off idle lol
 

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Cobra doesn't average 20+ MPG.

As for lincoln I'd get the tooling back for the DEW98 platform from jag and use that as a basis for a nice exciting RWD platform the LS failed to be, bring back names like continental or at least call it MKC for brand heritage, drop the Fusion based MKZ, heavily restyle the D3 MKS (as in NO shared inner structure or sheetmetal with the taurus), lose the tacky "branded" grills(that goes to the rest of the auto industry as well), and drop ALL CUVs and SUVs

Mercury needed to go because it was redundant with Lincoln and had no remaining flagship, if you really think dropping the brand was a mistake you haven't been paying attention. Lincoln is the competitor to lexus and acura who themselves compete with Germany, that's the way luxury has been for two decades.

As for GM my theory on them dropping Pontiac instead of buick is because the emblem was smaller. GM thrives on gaudy branding, the buick sheilds are way bigger than Pontiac's V lol
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Mercury needed to go because it was redundant with Lincoln and had no remaining flagship, if you really think dropping the brand was a mistake you haven't been paying attention. Lincoln is the competitor to lexus and acura who themselves compete with Germany, that's the way luxury has been for two decades.
I would love to know if that Acura or Lexus buyer even gave a thought to Lincoln. Maybe to Cadillac with its CTS, but I bet that buyer didn't give the MKZ a chance. I bet they considered Ford Taurus before the MKZ.

As for the Mustang, I would like to see it go up market as a performance coupe to be a more hobbiest car (like a ligher version of the Corvette). They should play on the heritage. It wouldn't be a car for everyone, just a select few. The Thunderbird could be the coupe for everyone, with a great powertain that is built for comfort. Have a Ecoboost 4 as the base with a Ecoboost 3.5L as the upmarket engine. Leave the 5.0to the Mustang.
 

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I would love to know if that Acura or Lexus buyer even gave a thought to Lincoln. Maybe to Cadillac with its CTS, but I bet that buyer didn't give the MKZ a chance. I bet they considered Ford Taurus before the MKZ.

As for the Mustang, I would like to see it go up market as a performance coupe to be a more hobbiest car (like a ligher version of the Corvette). They should play on the heritage. It wouldn't be a car for everyone, just a select few. The Thunderbird could be the coupe for everyone, with a great powertain that is built for comfort. Have a Ecoboost 4 as the base with a Ecoboost 3.5L as the upmarket engine. Leave the 5.0to the Mustang.
No it should be the opposite. The Thunderbird was always the upmarket personal luxury coupe. Its like BMW with the 3 series and the 6 series.

3 series = Mustang
6 series = Thunderbird
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The problem is that there is a much bigger following of the Mustang because its production hasn't been stopped and started so many times. The Thunderbird, on the other hand, has had a more chaotic life. Not as bad as the Cougar though!
 

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Road & Track addressed this issue. Thinking about a new GT being from Lincoln which I think would be a nice idea (power to weight over raw power).

Lincoln does have a lot of room to make up now that it is the only luxury brand in FOMOCO (it gets to replace Jag, Land Rover and Volvo), but Ford has to do it with only its money and not government bailout. I expect to see a slow evolution of Lincoln.

I would like to see SVT changed to Mercury and only available at Lincoln.
 

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The Mustang's heritage is exactly that, a sporty car for everyone. In fact I'd say today it's already too much of a hobbiest car, there's much more options for GTs than there is for bases, it's been going that route since the LX was dropped. That's a reason so many people still love fox bodies, they were the last mustangs to really have the same spirit as the originals, 3 bodystyles, lots of available options to pick and choose, youth image and best of all cheap and simple.

Turning it into some pseudo Corvette to me cheapens the name, and that's not even when the midlife crisis/small hose individuals who usually buy vettes flock to them (since they are the only ones who can afford the new premium price).

Simple lesson is, moving upmarket is just as bad if not worse as moving downmarket with nameplates, you should know that if you know thunderbird history, 1967 comes to mind.
 

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The Thunderbird, on the other hand, has had a more chaotic life. Not as bad as the Cougar though!
The Cougar has and always been(with murky exception of base 77-82s) the Thunderbirds alternative from 67-97. It filled the "sporty" void the Thunderbird left when it moved upmarket in 67 and joined it when the Thunderbird was moved downmarket in 77(replacing the Elite). The Cougar never was meant to be the Mustang's Firebird by sharing platforms, that's probably the most misunderstood aspect of the name. There's a reason it didn't become a Mustang II twin in 1974.

The thunderbird was way more chaotic, everyone who came and went in FoMoCo kicked the name into every segment they could fit it in to.
 

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My opinion on this...Mercury had no identitiy, andt his was nothing new. Mercurys where warmed over rebadged Fords, and it had been that way for decades. I say good riddance. I suppose ford could have done something to save it, but would anybody have cared?

Lincoln on the other hand, does have some potential, but the largest problem I see, is their choice in vehicle names, MK this and that...and that problem reaches far beyond Lincoln, with every other manufacturer "naming" their vehicles a series of letters and numbers. They need to bring back real names for vehicles.

Also, all the Lincolns seem to have the exact same front clip, same grille, same lights, same bumper, same hood. They all look the same. The only exception is the Navigator, which has an ugly grille and headlights that are goofy looking. They need to differentiate from themselves a bit. The final generation of Oldsmobile comes to mind, when they had every single vehicle next to each other, and they all looked the same. To be fair, everybody does this, BMW, Dodge, etc.

I don't know what can really be done to make Lincoln "Different" since, as stated earlier, a very very nice ford comes pretty close to being a Lincoln anyway, as far as options and features go.

Maybe a start would be lower prices on Ford's offerings, althogh probably not possible. Why is it that a base model V6 Mustang with no options now stickers at around 25K and new pick'em-up trucks are 40-60K that is unreal. Who can afford such things?
 

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I've always thought the MK moniker was a flawed marketing approach and I think it has shown to be true.

Lincoln's problems started long ago and they have stumbled at best trying to stay competitive, let alone gain any market share. With the exception of the ecoboost there just hasn't been much to cheer about. The current platforms are not receptive to the Lincoln heritage just by jazzing them up with high tech gadgets.

Look back to the past with the introduction of the Mark VIII. That is the kind of renaissance Lincoln needs to reinvent. Much of what was then standard equipment on the Mark VIII was cutting edge automotive technology back then that was later assimilated into other platforms as time passed. They simply failed to keep up with the competition and failed to lead with their premier brand.

Granted it seems there should be more to work with now that the field has thinned, but unless they are serious in redefining the Lincoln brand they will simply just be a over-priced dressed up Ford. How long they can afford to remain as such is certainly getting shorter.
 

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But the coyote torque is at a super high rpm like 4500-4600 were the cobra was off idle lol
Stock for stock, coyote mustang > terminator cobra. And if that wasn't enough, the ti-vct makes the torque kick in a lot earlier than if it didn't have it. Its not like earlier 4v's that needed rpm to make torque; coyote don't need it hence why a lot of terminators are being surprised ny them.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The Cougar has and always been(with murky exception of base 77-82s) the Thunderbirds alternative from 67-97.
Don't forget about those new Edge Cougars of 1999-2003 (or whatever it was). Those poor things are getting riced out now that the younger crowd is getting their hands on them.
 

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But the coyote torque is at a super high rpm like 4500-4600 were the cobra was off idle lol

Further dispelling the rumors about the importance of low end torque, since the Coyote cars spank the Terminators.
 

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Further dispelling the rumors about the importance of low end torque, since the Coyote cars spank the Terminators.
Are you trying to say thsoe guys that jsut roast tires off the line for "numbers" sake have too much tq and = a waste = not as fast or agile. Less is more so to speak.

What do you think is a good low end limit for a bird assuming a decent upgraded suspension and wheels/tires combo? I want to be sporty not sloppy.
 
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