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Hey guys.....this is based of my other thread "New motor...some problems". I found a few things tonite and even though this goes with that thread...I wanted to try and attract the attention of some other peeps for input.

Earlier tonite, I swapped out my BOSCH PLATNUM 6241 (HR-9DPY) plugs for a set of CHAMPION COPPER PLUS RS12YC plugs and found somethings that have me alittle disturbed. The BOSCH plugs were put in late Nov. - early DEC. (2003) and they looked absolutely terrible.

Here is a description of each plug. Plug number represents which cylindar the plug came from.
#1--- Small amount of wet oil on threads and nut. Ash deposites seen on the
electrode and seems to be also covered with burnt oil. Also shows possible
signs of detonation or too hot---hard to tell for sure because of the burnt oil
and ash deposites.

#2--- Large amount of wet oil...plug covered completely from top to bottom.
Major amount of ash deposites with small amount of burnt oil. Also showed
possible signs of detonation or being too hot.

#3--- Same as plug #2 except not as much wet oil on the thread.

#4--- Major amount of ash deposites and large amount of burnt oil on electrode.
Small amount of wet oil on threads. Also showed possible signs of detonation
or being too hot.

#5--- Same as plug #4.

#6--- Little to no wet oil on threads / plug. Heavy burnt oil deposites. Also signs of
possible detonation or be too hot.

#7--- ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.

#8--- Moderate amount of wet oil on threads. Heavy ash deposites and burnt oil on
electrode. Also signs of possible detonation or being too hot.

Also, as another note...the following plugs have a discoloration----kinda resembles tarnishing----on the ceramic part, just above the nut: 1, 2 (major), 3 (minor), 4 (moderate), 5 (very minor), 6 , 7 (major), and 8 (major). I'm sure that's a sign of running to hot of plug...but I could be wrong.

I know the ash deposites are from the car running rich. When I get a chance to have it DYNO'd by FORD CHIP........that problem will be corrected. The thing that has me extremely nervous is all the oil (both wet and burnt) on 7 of the 8 plugs. That's telling me that either the valve guides on my newly rebuilt SVO heads are bad already or the piston rings on my newly rebuilt motor haven't seated yet / properly. I would think the rings would have seated / sealed by now with over 3,000 miles on it since it was rebuilt. I took it easy on her for the first 1,500 - 2,000 miles for break in time as well as an oil change at 500 miles, 1,500 miles, and 2,500 miles. Now it this a sign that something is REALLY, really wrong or does it take alittle longer for everything to seal up??? The first plug change showed me every plug covered in oil.....and this time....everything is better than the first time.......but I would think it wouldn't have been this bad though.

ALso, the car has been running "rough" at lower RPMS (see thread "New Motor...few problems" ) further down in this forum.....and I thought it might have been the plugs. Now I'm wondering if I have a ring sealing problem....if the "rough" running isn't related to a loss in compression. ANY insight would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Here's a few pics of the plugs. These are the best pics I took.

<img src=http://members.tccoa.com/slowride/plugs/pluggroup.jpg>

PLUG ORDER= 1---2---3---4
<img src=http://members.tccoa.com/slowride/plugs/plugs1234b.jpg>

PLUG ORDER= 8---7---6---5
<img src=http://members.tccoa.com/slowride/plugs/plugs8765.jpg>

THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!
Slowride
 

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Oil can cause hard starting, ruff running, misfire and hesitation. Looks like oil is leaking past your valve guides and/ or piston rings. This looks like it could be a mechanical problem.

What kind of rings do you have?

I wonder of the oil will go away after you replace or clean the plugs?
 

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How many miles are on the engine so far??? I've known a lot of guys who's engines have let oil past the rings until they wore in, but I haven't seen it take longer than 500-1000 miles, and the 1000 is a little extreme.
 

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Hey SlowRide :)

I am assuming the Bosch's have been in since the rebuild ??

Plug contamination can occur after re-build and definatley if
you are running the improper heat range !!

I recommend "NGK TR6" Spark Plugs for you C.R.


Hope to see ya soon (dyno:ztoohot: tune)
 

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Put a compression tester on that baby like yesterday...
What color is your car? if it's light check your rear bumper... that's a pretty good sign of how messed up the guts are.
My engine took a little over 3000 miles to seat fully and tighten up.
Other things if you have a crossed up vac. line(or even bad power booster on the brakes for example) it could be sucking oil into the inlet tract(from the PCV crossover) and down into the engine. check the intake behind the throttle body if it's all oiled up you have a messed up vac. line or a crack somewhere.
How much oil do you add on a regular basis...
Last but not least (and the CR test will show this) there could be messed up rings(I hope not with Renegades rep. but mistakes do happen-don't even ask me about my experience with SHM or Hamilton-Clarke-lawsuit pending with HC-) or for example .020" over pistons in a .025" over bore the rings have enough width to grab the ring land but not stay under tention and you get massive oil blowby(of course you'd see this in your rearview mirrors).
PS hate to be a dic buy you'l need new O2's.
Also try a set of Autolite 605's(ask for plugs for a 98 Pontiac GTP-they'll give you 605's or 606's depending on the store).
Good luck man!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Rich95XR7: Just over 3,500 miles are on the motor.


J.Miller : They're some sort of moly rings.........file to fit kinda thing.....don't know
exact brand. Also, this is my 3rd. set of plugs since October.


JustinH : They don't sell motorcrafts around here anymore.........but I did get the
CHAMPION COPPER PLUS plugs.


Dr. FrankenCougie : Renegade Racing (JIM) built my motor. Told me I'd be good
after 500+ miles.


CurtisA : The BOSCH plugs were the 2nd set of plugs installed since the rebuild.
The CHAMPION plugs were the 3rd set since the re-build.

Zippythesquirrel: My car is WHITE....and there is no discoloration on the rear
bumper. I have over 3,500 miles on the motor now......and it's
been like 20 degrees or colder out lately. Right now...all vac. lines
seem to be OK. ALSO.....already have new O2 sensors......and the
EEC was programed for catless exhaust. As of right now, I average
about 4 quarts of oil every 2-3 weeks added to the motor. Some
of that is due to either an oil pan OR rear main seal leak!!!!!!!!!

LATER ALL!!!
Slowride
 

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4 quarts in 2 weeks? Did you put the engine in yourself or did the garage? If they did was there any kind of warranty with the motor and their work?
 

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it's the rings man chrome moly file to fits take forever to seat in the bores not really street parts unless you're going SC'd or NOS.
ALSO they are EASY to fuq up.
if they are a little loose or too tight you get blowby,but since you don't have a black rear bumper I'm gonna assume you still have downspouts as opposed to straight out the back(alla mustang) exhaust.
Umm does the motor have a warranty bc if it's only got 3500 miles on it and has an oil leak THATS A PROBLEM..... as bad as HC's motor was it never leaked and did seal up nicely(too bad they left the oil pickup laying in the bottom of the oilpan not connected to the pump......(yah that was fun lemmie say no oil at 60 MPH sux bad).
They are still fighting the warranty on it with me.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
96lxcorey : I pulled and re-installed the motor myself.....couldn't afford shop prices for that. The motor however was built by someone else with a GREAT reputation....that's why this thing has caught me off guard. I'll be sending him an e-mail about all of this sometime this week and go from there. Even if there is a warranty and he can fix it.....I'm the one that has to pull it and stuff, which I don't have time to do right now nor do I have a second car available....so this can really put me in a bind now.

Zippythesquirrel : Well........that's what I was thinking. I guess right now, I don't have much of a choice but to wait it all out. Maybe I'll get lucky and the rings just haven't seated yet, I mean this time, there wasn't as much oil on the plugs as there was the last time I did a plug change. I do still have 2.5" "downspout" tips coming out the back off my Dynomax mufflers. The exhaust smells alittle, but it smells more like gas than oil.....makes your eyes burn bad if you're not outside. As for the leak, well...if it's the oil pan gasket, I was kinda expecting that in the future. If the leak is from the rear main seal (which I think that's where it's coming from) I might have screwed it up when I was putting the motor back in the car....so at least with the oil leak....I'm positive it's not my builder's fault---I wanted to make that clear before someone goes back and says I'm telling everyone his motor build sucked or something. I'll send an e-mail to my builder and see what he thinks is going on, now that I kinda have alittle more info about this and a better understanding of what might be "wrong". I just hope that if the rings are bad, they didn't screw up the cylindar walls. This is kinda weird though, I've never heard of 7 out of 8 rings getting screwd up....maybe one or two, but never 7...on a new motor.

Well, I guess this isn't as bad as no oil at 60mph.....that would suck!! Good luck with the warranty fight!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
J.MILLER: Yeah, I heard / read that somewhere. Anyways, I'm using Valvoline All Climate 10w30 motor oil.
 

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Thanks and good luck with your motor.
I have seen file to fit rings take as much as 6K to seal up. It all depends on the type of rings and bore prep(I used a laser honing process on the last iteration and it's killer tight I don't burn any oil at all). I did use 0 weight as my initial startup and run in oil and it seemed to clean al the little nooks and crannies out(was brown when it came out went in clear never leaked but I overkilled on pan, front cover and valvecover gaskets, but I hate leaks).
He has a better than great rep I wish I'd have known about his company 4 years ago when I started getting my mess together for the first time.
Like I said good luck, but I'm sure there won't be any issues. If I lived closer I'd loan ya my Mercury Mistake(Mystique) till you got stuff sorted out.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Well, I was finally able to send Jim an e-mail last nite.....and just got done reading his reply. Don't know anything for sure because he can't say for sure what's going on without looking the CAT over, but it sounds like everything maybe related to my EEC re-flash being too rich----which I knew it was and just been waitting for a Dyno tune opportunity again with FORD CHIP. Anyways, it looks like I'll be takeing the CAT up to him in a week or too so he can look her over personnally----a testiment to the type of guy Jim is. After he looks at her, he'll have a better idea on a cause and fix. I just hope it's not gonna cost me mega cash to fix.......I'm still trying to recover from the rebuild costs. *LOL* I'll know soon enough I guess. I'll keep ya all updated as best I can.

Thanks for all the input guys!!!!

Slowride

Zippythesquirrel: Thanks for the offer on the Mistake (Mistique)....
 

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I hope your tune is soon. They do excellent dyno tunes…

As long as your overheat plugs are intact on you motor most shops will stand behind their work. I doubt that you will have a problem. But if you do please let us know.

By over heat plugs (in search of a better name) I mean heat sensitive plugs that tell the motor build weather or not you allowed the motor to overheat. A/k/a not putting enough coolant into the system…
 
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